House "stolen" and sold

Silvertabby

Section62 said:

Flugelhorn said:

agree they should have mentioned this - I have it for my properties and had a real shock when I got an e-mail alert from them... just to say that nothing had happened 

Yes, the system is great, for those who know about it. 

I've just put the point to @Land_Registry as maybe their press office can act quickly to turn what is currently a negative story into something a lot more positive.

Just the one property, but we have this as well.

Read a similar article some time ago, which said that being mortgage free made it easier for the crooks - fewer checks needed, I suppose.

Scootypops

@FreeBear

We are in the position of having inherited a house with no deeds and not on the electronic land registry and are having quite a time with our conveyancing solicitor who want an extra £1000+VAT to complete the application for first registration, which is seemingly 1 form with application details + which is a list of supporting docs and a further one which is a statement of truth with further detail on how the deeds came to be lost or stolen.

Am I being had by the solicitors? I completed 90% of it myself and have a few guidance queries to sort for the other 10%,done  in about 2.5 hours.

user1977

Scootypops said:

@FreeBear

We are in the position of having inherited a house with no deeds and not on the electronic land registry and are having quite a time with our conveyancing solicitor who want an extra £1000+VAT to complete the application for first registration, which is seemingly 1 form with application details + which is a list of supporting docs and a further one which is a statement of truth with further detail on how the deeds came to be lost or stolen.

Am I being had by the solicitors? I completed 90% of it myself and have a few guidance queries to sort for the other 10%,done  in about 2.5 hours.

It's not really what this thread is about.

GDB2222

Scootypops said:

@FreeBear

We are in the position of having inherited a house with no deeds and not on the electronic land registry and are having quite a time with our conveyancing solicitor who want an extra £1000+VAT to complete the application for first registration, which is seemingly 1 form with application details + which is a list of supporting docs and a further one which is a statement of truth with further detail on how the deeds came to be lost or stolen.

Am I being had by the solicitors? I completed 90% of it myself and have a few guidance queries to sort for the other 10%,done  in about 2.5 hours.

Don’t forget that solicitors charge £200-300 an hour. So, 2.5 hours spent so far, and you have accounted for most of the fee. Plus, who. Is to say that you are doing all that is needed?

HettyQ

jeaniemsm said:

How the hell does something like this happen?
Did the fraudster have keys to the house to allow viewings?

Surely the neighbour that called the owner would have seen a for sale sign up, people coming in for viewings 

Apparently the house was broken into (presumably in the night?) and the locks changed.  Some sales go through without a sale board being put up - sometimes people just advertise it on the internet and don't use an estate agent.  And some people will, apparently, buy a property without even viewing it if it's cheap enough!  The whole thing is a home owners nightmare (it is mine). 

HettyQ

More information about it is on a piece on the BBC News website - and there's a link at the bottom to the YouAndYours investigation by Shari Vahl if anyone wants to listen (useful).  Properties most likely to be targetted are either empty or rented out, and with no mortgage.  Advice is to get on the (free) Land Registry - Property Alert scheme - which alerts owner if any activity takes place regarding their property.  Onus was on the solicitor to check identity - and neither them, nor the DVLA (who issued a replacement driving licence with a different picture, signature etc to the original) in this case, comes out well. 

zagubov

Worryingly I'm not sure how you protect your property in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

GDB2222

Section62 said:

GDB2222 said:

The fraudulent seller had good ID, which passed the scrutiny of his own conveyancer. It ought to, as it was a genuine driving licence, etc.   It's not the buyer's solicitor's job to second guess that.

The thing which would interest me is how the fraudster got a replacement driving licence with their photo on it.

If it were a replacement of a photo licence then are there not checks to make sure the photos appear to be the same person?

If it were a replacement for a paper licence, then aren't there checks that the photo is of the person named on the licence?


It feels like there is more to this story which - perhaps for good reasons - isn't being told.

I can think of two ways, straight away, and I am not in the fraud business.

The first is simply that the fraudster looked passably like Mr Hall.  I really don’t know how much scrutiny DVLA give to replacement photos, but people do change over time, so DVLA may only question the most blatant substitutions.

 The second is for someone with a genuine licence simply to change their name to the house owner's.

Obviously, neither option is foolproof. Far from it, but as I said I’m not in the business.

It is also possible that the fraudster's conveyancer treated money laundering as a box ticking exercise, and got the photo ID by post but never checked it against the customer. 

p00hsticks

Section62 said:

If it were a replacement for a paper licence, then aren't there checks that the photo is of the person named on the licence?

It requires someone known to the applicant and in a given set of professions, who also possesses a valid UK licence, to sign the back of the photo to show that it is a true likeness.

user1977

zagubov said:

Worryingly I'm not sure how you protect your property in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

There's no email alert system, but the registration process works in a similar way, so nobody's going to have their home "stolen" - the innocent buyer only keeps their title if they're actually in occupation (and are innocent!). So it still requires a vacant property (or a naughty tenant).

And although it obviously sounds alarming, it is a pretty rare scenario.