My partners brother has taken a loan out using their mother's home as security.

Moby

gettingtheresometime said:

Moby said:

onylon said:

I would be very worried if your brother in law has already thrown away so much of his mothers money servicing this loan. I'm guessing he feels that he deserves the same lifestyle he had pre-divorce? Given that your mother in law is elderly and has poor literacy, does she understand how much risk she is taking on? Would she have anywhere to live if your brother in law defaults on his loan and the house is repossessed to pay his debts? Does your brother in law have a plan to get back to financial health or is he dragging his mother into bankruptcy with him?

I strongly believe that we should make our own way in the world and inheritance is a windfall for those lucky enough to receive it. Entitlement just clouds these situations and makes them more fraught than they need to be. If you stop trying to protect the money and put your efforts into protecting your mother in law then things are less likely to go sour.

My partner's 'entitlement' as you put it stems from the fact that she originally purchased the property with her mother and then it was placed in her mothers name and subsequently we have had the scenario I described above.  

Was it a council house bought under right to buy?

Yes the daughter bought it to secure the mother in the property. The mother's husband had recently passed and the mother feared being transferred to a flat by the council.

TBagpuss

The trouble is that if the loan is secured against the property, any interest which the daughter might now register would take subject to the loan, as the loan was registered first.

Ideally of course there would have been a declaration of trust or a charge drawn up when the property was bought , to secure daughter's interest, but while you could do that now, it would in effect be a second mortgage with the loan MIL has signed for her son being the first mortgage. Doing one now may help protect your partner's interest when it comes to inheritance, as it would mean that the funds would be used first to pay the secured loan, second to pay the debt to her and then the balance after than split, whereas as it stands now, the debt would be paid off then anything left split between her and her brother (unless mum has made a will that says otherwise, or the loan is actually in brother's name but with mum as a guarantor, in which case this may change things)  

Assuming that MIL does not lack mental capacity she is free to do what she wants, including being free to make unwise decisions.

It's possible that MIL should have been advised to take independent advice before signing in the first place - it may be worth getting some proper advice about that, but even then, if MIL herself doesn't want to complain then it may be difficult for anyone else to do so. 

deannagone

I have dealt with a sort of similar situation.  My ex and I had a son.  We split up.  My partners mother died and left him a lot of money.  Our son is now 25.  Last year his father died from a brain tumour.  He married his gf shortly before he died.  This marriage completely wiped out any words my ex spoke to his son about making sure he would receive an inheritance (it was at least a couple of hundred K.)  I have explained to my son that the money was his fathers, it was his to do with as he wishes.  Unfortunately for the last year of his life, he wasn't really with it (brain damaged from the operations he had). I am not in any way saying his wife did anything dodgy, they were both living a nightmare obviously.  But my son will now not get any inheritance at all (there was no will).  But it was his father's money.  Some could say its unfair on our son, but the money was never his.  Sometimes you have to swallow feelings that something is unfair and take a deep breath, get some perspective and walk on.  Otherwise you become bitter.

Your partner's mother can do what she wishes with her money.  It is hers, it is not your partners, nor is it her brothers.  Whatever you feel about his lifestyle, your extra worthiness in your life choices, its what your partner's mother wishes to do.  If she needs care later on, then is the time to put in your comments.  Right now, unless you are willing to go through a legal and mental health care process to prove her as 'unfit' in some way .., there is nothing you can do.  To be honest, if your partner's brother has made no effort at all to pay back the loan or interest, he never will. But while your partner's mother is not judged as unfit, you can do absolutely nothing about it.  You've already tried to persuade her that she is doing things that will harm her later on (and you).., she said she doesn't care.  There's nothing else you can do.   You just have to face that and lower any expectations.  You need to put this behind you and carry on with your lives without a sense of loss for money you never actually had.  Please believe me, I am not trying to be nasty.  It would be lovely if there was fairness in life, but there is just life, and its not always fair.

Mojisola

deannagone said:

I have dealt with a sort of similar situation.  My ex and I had a son.  We split up.  My partners mother died and left him a lot of money.  Our son is now 25.  Last year his father died from a brain tumour.  He married his gf shortly before he died.  This marriage completely wiped out any words my ex spoke to his son about making sure he would receive an inheritance (it was at least a couple of hundred K.)  I have explained to my son that the money was his fathers, it was his to do with as he wishes. 

Not quite the same situation - the father's lump sum came from his mother.

If your son had given his father some of the money that then passed on to his step-mother, would you feel the same?

Pixie5740

Mojisola said:

Moby said:

My partner's 'entitlement' as you put it stems from the fact that she originally purchased the property with her mother and then it was placed in her mothers name

Is it possible to get paperwork signed by her mother to evidence the money used to buy the property?

Your wife could then put a charge on the house for that amount.

You can’t just turn a gift into a loan because you don’t like what the recipient is doing with the gift.  

BellaLasagna2018

Mojisola said:

deannagone said:

I have dealt with a sort of similar situation.  My ex and I had a son.  We split up.  My partners mother died and left him a lot of money.  Our son is now 25.  Last year his father died from a brain tumour.  He married his gf shortly before he died.  This marriage completely wiped out any words my ex spoke to his son about making sure he would receive an inheritance (it was at least a couple of hundred K.)  I have explained to my son that the money was his fathers, it was his to do with as he wishes. 

Not quite the same situation - the father's lump sum came from his mother.

If your son had given his father some of the money that then passed on to his step-mother, would you feel the same?

It’s not exactly the same situation, but what I get deannagone’s post is that there is no “inheritance” until a person has died. If the daughter wanted to keep a share in the house, she wouldn’t have signed it over to her mother, surely? Now it is the mother to do what she pleases with it. 

maman

BellaLasagna2018 said:

It’s not exactly the same situation, but what I get deannagone’s post is that there is no “inheritance” until a person has died. If the daughter wanted to keep a share in the house, she wouldn’t have signed it over to her mother, surely? Now it is the mother to do what she pleases with it. 

We can't know the circumstances until @Moby chooses to come back and explain why his partner paid for the house and then handed it over to the mother. It does seem a strange thing to do. We can speculate but we can't know for sure. 🤔

Carrot007

maman said:

We can't know the circumstances until @Moby chooses to come back and explain why his partner paid for the house and then handed it over to the mother. It does seem a strange thing to do. We can speculate but we can't know for sure. 🤔

Speculate, it was said! It was a council hous, she did not live there, therefore right to buy for mother had to be a gift.

And while nice and not what she wanted you can't put stipulartions on gifts.

OP, the money is lost. And the idiot will not move out when the mother dies, meaning you would have to spend thousands tryign to get somewhere and he will to so there will be nothing left.

Best to let it go, ignore the idiot and move on. (and don't even think about what will need rto be done shoudl the mother need to go into care (someone will have to pay becuase of this depravation of assets, it will probably be you).

Unfortunatly the idiot here is an addict. Not one usually associated with addiction but probably the second worst one. Spending money to live a lifestyle they think they deserve. Unless the mother stops being a feeder and supporting it he is unlikely to have a moment of clarity which only he can have. it is not worth stressing out over money. Worry about what matters and either vut him out or try to get him thinking about that too.

I guess if mother needs care and cannot get it being her full time carer may make him rethink what is important.

Sorry this has been so bleak but I think it needed to be said.

MalMonroe

You say "my partner's entitlement stems from the fact that she originally purchased the property with her mother and then it was placed in her mothers name". That is surprising, given that you also say that your partner's mother is 'semi-literate". It doesn't seem to make much sense to put the property in her mother's sole name if that's the case. If I had helped someone to buy a property, I'd definitely want to retain my share in it. Whether the co-owner was 'semi-literate' (what an awful term) or not.

But basically, your partner has helped to buy a house and has given away any rights to it. It's her mother's. Her mother can do as she pleases, and is doing so by the sound of it. 

There's not a lot your partner can do - except maybe visit her mother more often? Sounds like her mum could do with some help since she's not only semi-literate but has poor eyesight too - and a bit of company. 

Then your partner would at least have more of an idea what's going on but it doesn't sound like there's going to be much left to inherit. And if her mother were already living in a council flat (which is where I live now and it's fabulous - one of a block of only two on a crescent of only 14 homes in a gorgeous rural setting - not all council flats are horrible) there probably wouldn't be anything at all to inherit. There'll be nothing to inherit from me.

Maybe you should prepare yourselves to receive nothing. There's more to life than money - close family ties for one example.