Age discrimination?

Undervalued

longjohnjohnson said:

Undervalued said:

General_Grant said:

Marvel1 said:

Personally I would start recording these conversations - without their knowledge, is this allowed?

Yes.  Provided the person doing the recording is part of the conversation.

(It is not permissible to leave a device recording in the room when you are not there.)

That is all correct however there is no guarantee that such a recording (or a transcript from it) will be admissible at an employment tribunal. The have been allowed in certain circumstances and that has been upheld at appeal. However there are also plenty of cases where they have been ruled inadmissible. Expect a battle to get such a recording admitted.

That said, providing you don't get caught making the recording, it is always better than have one than not. When the respondent finds out that one exists it may concentrate their mind about telling the truth as otherwise it could be proof of perjury which is a serious criminal offence. 

Don't submit a recording then, submit a transcript of the recording.  The defence can only grill you as to the veracity of its contents, which they will know is true anyway, so won't do.

That is what you would almost certainly have to do. However, as I said, not always admissible and expect the respondent's lawyer to argue vociferously to try and exclude it.  

lincroft1710

Jillanddy said:

lincroft1710 said:

paigesand said:

The nurse works full time and when she came in this morning she was warned by both of them she must not disclose what was said to her to any other staff, patients or outsiders and if she does they will have her in court for bringing the business into disrepute.

That I would love to see!!

It wouldn't stop them from fairly dismissing her for that reason though. Would it? Even if what was said was true,  that didn't mean she can repeat it with impunity. 

My point was solely concerning the partners threatening to take the nurse to court. I am not suggesting the nurse ignores the threat. Yes they could dismiss her but surely unless the partners show actual evidence that the nurse repeating a conversation has caused problems, would she not have a case for unfair dismissal. 


Similarly if they "took her to court" they would have to show evidence of loss by her talking to other people and taking someone to court for slander/libel is not cheap. Bear in mind the nurse would only be repeating a conversation, not making slanderous/libellous .statements out of context.

Jillanddy

lincroft1710 said:

Jillanddy said:

lincroft1710 said:

paigesand said:

The nurse works full time and when she came in this morning she was warned by both of them she must not disclose what was said to her to any other staff, patients or outsiders and if she does they will have her in court for bringing the business into disrepute.

That I would love to see!!

It wouldn't stop them from fairly dismissing her for that reason though. Would it? Even if what was said was true,  that didn't mean she can repeat it with impunity. 

My point was solely concerning the partners threatening to take the nurse to court. I am not suggesting the nurse ignores the threat. Yes they could dismiss her but surely unless the partners show actual evidence that the nurse repeating a conversation has caused problems, would she not have a case for unfair dismissal. 


Similarly if they "took her to court" they would have to show evidence of loss by her talking to other people and taking someone to court for slander/libel is not cheap. Bear in mind the nurse would only be repeating a conversation, not making slanderous/libellous .statements out of context.

I very much doubt anyone would really consider slander. But we have to remember that employment law is not like other law. If I go around saying that my employer is awful, that they are discriminatory, and making other adverse comments about them, even if those comments are true, it is entirely fair in employment law to dismiss me and the employer doesn't need to prove loss of anything or problems created. Basically, there are procedures if you are unhappy with your employer. You can raise a grievance. You can find another job. But you do not get to slag off your employer to other staff or clients, or to the general public. Even if they truly deserve it!

And it also occurred to me to add - and also don't do it on social media because no matter what you think your settings are, someone may not be the friend you think they are!

lincroft1710

Jillanddy said:

lincroft1710 said:

Jillanddy said:

lincroft1710 said:

paigesand said:

The nurse works full time and when she came in this morning she was warned by both of them she must not disclose what was said to her to any other staff, patients or outsiders and if she does they will have her in court for bringing the business into disrepute.

That I would love to see!!

It wouldn't stop them from fairly dismissing her for that reason though. Would it? Even if what was said was true,  that didn't mean she can repeat it with impunity. 

My point was solely concerning the partners threatening to take the nurse to court. I am not suggesting the nurse ignores the threat. Yes they could dismiss her but surely unless the partners show actual evidence that the nurse repeating a conversation has caused problems, would she not have a case for unfair dismissal. 


Similarly if they "took her to court" they would have to show evidence of loss by her talking to other people and taking someone to court for slander/libel is not cheap. Bear in mind the nurse would only be repeating a conversation, not making slanderous/libellous .statements out of context.

I very much doubt anyone would really consider slander. But we have to remember that employment law is not like other law. If I go around saying that my employer is awful, that they are discriminatory, and making other adverse comments about them, even if those comments are true, it is entirely fair in employment law to dismiss me and the employer doesn't need to prove loss of anything or problems created. Basically, there are procedures if you are unhappy with your employer. You can raise a grievance. You can find another job. But you do not get to slag off your employer to other staff or clients, or to the general public. Even if they truly deserve it!

And it also occurred to me to add - and also don't do it on social media because no matter what you think your settings are, someone may not be the friend you think they are!

I wouldn't disagree with your points about slagging off your employer. But if you simply repeated a conversation you had with your employer with no further comment, would you be slagging them off? 

Undervalued

lincroft1710 said:

Jillanddy said:

lincroft1710 said:

Jillanddy said:

lincroft1710 said:

paigesand said:

The nurse works full time and when she came in this morning she was warned by both of them she must not disclose what was said to her to any other staff, patients or outsiders and if she does they will have her in court for bringing the business into disrepute.

That I would love to see!!

It wouldn't stop them from fairly dismissing her for that reason though. Would it? Even if what was said was true,  that didn't mean she can repeat it with impunity. 

My point was solely concerning the partners threatening to take the nurse to court. I am not suggesting the nurse ignores the threat. Yes they could dismiss her but surely unless the partners show actual evidence that the nurse repeating a conversation has caused problems, would she not have a case for unfair dismissal. 


Similarly if they "took her to court" they would have to show evidence of loss by her talking to other people and taking someone to court for slander/libel is not cheap. Bear in mind the nurse would only be repeating a conversation, not making slanderous/libellous .statements out of context.

I very much doubt anyone would really consider slander. But we have to remember that employment law is not like other law. If I go around saying that my employer is awful, that they are discriminatory, and making other adverse comments about them, even if those comments are true, it is entirely fair in employment law to dismiss me and the employer doesn't need to prove loss of anything or problems created. Basically, there are procedures if you are unhappy with your employer. You can raise a grievance. You can find another job. But you do not get to slag off your employer to other staff or clients, or to the general public. Even if they truly deserve it!

And it also occurred to me to add - and also don't do it on social media because no matter what you think your settings are, someone may not be the friend you think they are!

I wouldn't disagree with your points about slagging off your employer. But if you simply repeated a conversation you had with your employer with no further comment, would you be slagging them off? 

An employee has a duty not to bring the employer into disrepute. Repeating something to those not intended to have been privy to it could be doing just that.

Jillanddy

lincroft1710 said:

Jillanddy said:

lincroft1710 said:

Jillanddy said:

lincroft1710 said:

paigesand said:

The nurse works full time and when she came in this morning she was warned by both of them she must not disclose what was said to her to any other staff, patients or outsiders and if she does they will have her in court for bringing the business into disrepute.

That I would love to see!!

It wouldn't stop them from fairly dismissing her for that reason though. Would it? Even if what was said was true,  that didn't mean she can repeat it with impunity. 

My point was solely concerning the partners threatening to take the nurse to court. I am not suggesting the nurse ignores the threat. Yes they could dismiss her but surely unless the partners show actual evidence that the nurse repeating a conversation has caused problems, would she not have a case for unfair dismissal. 


Similarly if they "took her to court" they would have to show evidence of loss by her talking to other people and taking someone to court for slander/libel is not cheap. Bear in mind the nurse would only be repeating a conversation, not making slanderous/libellous .statements out of context.

I very much doubt anyone would really consider slander. But we have to remember that employment law is not like other law. If I go around saying that my employer is awful, that they are discriminatory, and making other adverse comments about them, even if those comments are true, it is entirely fair in employment law to dismiss me and the employer doesn't need to prove loss of anything or problems created. Basically, there are procedures if you are unhappy with your employer. You can raise a grievance. You can find another job. But you do not get to slag off your employer to other staff or clients, or to the general public. Even if they truly deserve it!

And it also occurred to me to add - and also don't do it on social media because no matter what you think your settings are, someone may not be the friend you think they are!

I wouldn't disagree with your points about slagging off your employer. But if you simply repeated a conversation you had with your employer with no further comment, would you be slagging them off? 

I think the more relevant question is "would you bet your job on that?". I wouldn't.  You personally might be "simply repeating something" but if it is taken a different way by the hearer,  and then they stopped using the business... Take a similar example.  Bullying. You may not intend to bully someone.  Your lack of intention doesn't mean that you aren't being perceived as a bully by the recipient, and their opinion is critical.  We have the same example here already. The OP perceives the comments as ageist.  Someone else might consider it banter, or even realism. The OP doesn't,  which is why we are all kind of on side.  But we also perceive the OP as racist. I don't she does,  and I don't think she really means to be.  But be honest,  she is being.  

It is entirely within reason that an employment tribunal would consider making comments that adversely impact on the employer's business (and potentially on everyone's job's) as fair grounds for dismissal.  Even if true. 

My new boss is a two faced b...... That's true. And accurate.  But I won't be saying it out loud.

paigesand

I have had a formal letter offering me one of the university jobs.

If I accept then I will start a 3 day induction in two weeks time.

Jillanddy

paigesand said:

I have had a formal letter offering me one of the university jobs.

If I accept then I will start a 3 day induction in two weeks time.

So that is great news,  congratulations.  Why would you not accept? 

Randall95

Leave with your dignity