Section 75 claim against credit card

Jaybee1945

I booked an apartment in Tenerife through HomeAway now called VRBO. I paid 725 euros deposit. This was in Feb 2019 for a holiday to be taken in January 2021. Because of covid restrictions I couldn't go and I was offered the option to change the date to a later time. This was changed to February 2022 using the same deposit which was held.
I have now been informed that the owner of the apartment has sold it so I am unable to use it. I have been unable, after numerous attempts to recover my deposit.
I approached my credit card company to put in a section 75 claim but they have come back to me saying that the time limit was 120 days. I know this isn't true as it's not a chargeback. They have also said that the payment was made via a third party, but going through VRBO is the only way I could have booked the apartment. 
I am now considering going to the ombudsman if I don't get anywhere with the card company who I have banked with for 30 years. I would appreciate some advice on this please. 
Thank you Jaybee

born_again

Jaybee1945 said:

I booked an apartment in Tenerife through HomeAway now called VRBO. I paid 725 euros deposit. This was in Feb 2019 for a holiday to be taken in January 2021. Because of covid restrictions I couldn't go and I was offered the option to change the date to a later time. This was changed to February 2022 using the same deposit which was held.
I have now been informed that the owner of the apartment has sold it so I am unable to use it. I have been unable, after numerous attempts to recover my deposit.
I approached my credit card company to put in a section 75 claim but they have come back to me saying that the time limit was 120 days. I know this isn't true as it's not a chargeback. They have also said that the payment was made via a third party, but going through VRBO is the only way I could have booked the apartment. 
I am now considering going to the ombudsman if I don't get anywhere with the card company who I have banked with for 30 years. I would appreciate some advice on this please. 
Thank you Jaybee

The fact you could only book through a 3rd party makes no difference. That breaks the creditor/debtor link. TBH. You will be wasting your time with the ombudsman as they will agree with CC co.
Even passed the 540 days max for a chargeback.

eskbanker

Jaybee1945 said:

They have also said that the payment was made via a third party, but going through VRBO is the only way I could have booked the apartment.

As born_again says, this effectively means that there wasn't a way of achieving s75 protection for booking this apartment.  Your best bet will probably be to claim on your travel insurance, if it covers this scenario....

phillw

It is kind of weird that this breaks section 75, you have nothing to lose chancing your luck by going to the ombudsman. They might not find in your favor though.

What have you done in terms of contacting vrbo and the host?

You may have to resort to suing them.

Sandtree

phillw said:

It is kind of weird that this breaks section 75, you have nothing to lose chancing your luck by going to the ombudsman. They might not find in your favor though.

What have you done in terms of contacting vrbo and the host?

You may have to resort to suing them.

Not at all, D-C-S is a fundamental part of S75

There are thousands of ombudsman decisions on this like Decision Reference DRN5232096 (financial-ombudsman.org.uk) :

"Our investigator explained that for s.75 to apply there would have to be a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement (“DCS”) in place – in this case, Amex, Ms B and the owner respectively. But as Ms B had paid company A, and not the owner, the requisite DCS link was broken and so s.75 couldn’t apply to her contract with the owner."

born_again

phillw said:

It is kind of weird that this breaks section 75

Think of it like this.
You pay A who passes the money to B.

Has A breached the contract, or misrepresented anything? Which is the basis of S75

phillw

born_again said:

phillw said:

It is kind of weird that this breaks section 75

Think of it like this.
You pay A who passes the money to B.

Has A breached the contract, or misrepresented anything? Which is the basis of S75

If I go online and order something, which is then delivered by a third party, then how is that really any different?

They passed money onto the manufacturer, paid someone to deliver it, etc

"sorry, the manfacturer says they don't make it anymore, go and ask them for the refund".

Sandtree

phillw said:

born_again said:

phillw said:

It is kind of weird that this breaks section 75

Think of it like this.
You pay A who passes the money to B.

Has A breached the contract, or misrepresented anything? Which is the basis of S75

If I go online and order something, which is then delivered by a third party, then how is that really any different?

They passed money onto the manufacturer, paid someone to deliver it, etc

"sorry, the manfacturer says they don't make it anymore, go and ask them for the refund".

You need to assess 1) who the contract is with, 2) who is responsible for fulfilling the contract and 3) who the money goes to. These need to be the same person for S75 to apply.

The problem with holiday sites is that they are an agency and so typically the contract is between you and the apartment owner but the money is paid to the agent and so the link is broken.

You have to remember that S75 stems from the Consumer Credit Act 1974 when the internet and the rise of middle men wasnt there and credit cards and their acceptance was rare. Back in the day it was more understandable that there was some serious vetting of merchants who would accept credit cards and therefore more of a reason to say the banks should be liable... now I can open a new account with iZettle and start taking CC payments in seconds. I'd argue its more questionable why banks are still liable than if the DCS link is still appropriate

PayPal is the most common sited issue... pay by CC via PayPal account and you have lost S75 even if 1 and 2 are with the same party because you have legally paid PayPal not the merchant.

born_again

phillw said:

born_again said:

phillw said:

It is kind of weird that this breaks section 75

Think of it like this.
You pay A who passes the money to B.

Has A breached the contract, or misrepresented anything? Which is the basis of S75

If I go online and order something, which is then delivered by a third party, then how is that really any different?

They passed money onto the manufacturer, paid someone to deliver it, etc

"sorry, the manfacturer says they don't make it anymore, go and ask them for the refund".

YES. The important bit is Who you are paying...

You do not pay the courier for the product.

In Op case they paid VRBO to pass the money onto the owner of the rental.
As such any contract is with VRBO to pass the money on to the rental owner. They have done this. Thus no breech of contract.

phillw

born_again said:
In Op case they paid VRBO to pass the money onto the owner of the rental.

As such any contract is with VRBO to pass the money on to the rental owner. They have done this. Thus no breech of contract.

VRBO don't advertise a card handling service, they advertise properties to rent.

born_again

phillw said:

born_again said:
In Op case they paid VRBO to pass the money onto the owner of the rental.

As such any contract is with VRBO to pass the money on to the rental owner. They have done this. Thus no breech of contract.

VRBO don't advertise a card handling service, they advertise properties to rent.

From VRBO website

What do Vrbo rentals offer?

Connecting millions of homeowners and holiday-goers, Vrbo is a holiday rentals community that offers guests different options beyond a standard hotel. Boasting property owners all over the world, Vrbo has a vast network of bookable properties, found along beaches, in the countryside or in cities, so you can find your ideal holiday rental in your dream destination. All it takes to get started is a quick property rental search for your destination on Vrbo, which gives you a list of available holiday homes in a range of categories including cottages, villas, ski chalets and holiday apartments. Once you find your perfect fit, you can securely book your holiday rental to get started with your holiday planning.

Here's why a private holiday home rental is a perfect choice

Many people prefer privacy and flexibility during their holiday. With a private holiday rental, you can easily accommodate the whole family, enjoy a romantic retreat tucked away from the world, walk out onto the beach for a long day in the sun and more. Holiday homes also offer convenient amenities, such as a self-contained space with a kitchen for budget-friendly cooking or a garden for the perfect pet-friendly accommodation, as well as extravagant additions like private pools, hot tubs and more to keep the kids occupied or to enjoy a romantic evening alone.

They do not have to offer a card handling service. All they are is a 3rd party who connect homeowners with holiday goers (Their own words) so they admit they are a 3rd party.

TBH. People can argue semantics as much as they like. CC have already said no. FOS will back them up as per cases @Sandtree has linked too.

If the company that shows on the CC statement does not supply the product/service (which VRBO do not) then there is no debtor/creditor link.