Ticket in car park that becomes no parking during certain hours - any hope?

ahsan

Hello members

I have received a parking charge yesterday via post - I have not seen this type before where store/shopping parking becomes NO PARKING between certain hours. I always saw 2 hour limit and never bothered to see the small print. I have been entering this parking to drop my child and leaving. I was not aware of this restriction until the ticket landed and I am now worried how many more I will get .

I have read the sticky posts. Plan A is not an option as I called number of store and they just say its not our parking. 

Question 1 - I don't think I can see this going to court as I do not have a leg to stand on but can I still ignore the letter and put an appeal 25/26 days and hope that NTK does not arrive in time. 
Question 2 - Are there any other flaws with the parking signs attached where I can challenge on technical grounds. 
Question 3 - If I appeal with POPLA later on do we have to attend in person or you submit a case and get results online

 Any help will be much appreciated - I have a feeling I might be getting few more of these . I could afford to pay 1 but if many arrive then I will be bankrupt. Please help.

Half_way

Where is this car park?

 i remember seeing something in my news feed about a car park with a similar set up  - ie instant Parking charge notice just for entering, under the so called guide of deterring boy racers/so called enthusiast meets

 How long was the vehicle in the car park for?

ahsan

Half_way said:

Where is this car park?

 i remember seeing something in my news feed about a car park with a similar set up  - ie instant Parking charge notice just for entering, under the so called guide of deterring boy racers/so called enthusiast meets

 How long was the vehicle in the car park for?

Thank you for your reply. Its in Reading - I was in the parking for 10 minutes and few seconds.

Trainerman

Not wanting to get your hopes up too much, but if that first sign is by the entrance and the other is one that you have to look for and you were only there for 10 mins, perhaps you have a defence under the grace period that you should be allowed to find the signs and read them

ahsan

Trainerman said:

Not wanting to get your hopes up too much, but if that first sign is by the entrance and the other is one that you have to look for and you were only there for 10 mins, perhaps you have a defence under the grace period that you should be allowed to find the signs and read them

thank you - I was few seconds above 10 minutes - is there any rule around grace period, if yes how long is the grace period?

Johnersh

OK, so there is no free parking outside hours of darkness.

Your car is seen late in what appears to be an unlit carpark.

The writing at the entrance says 2 hrs max stay. It could easily say "max 2 hrs parking 8am - 10pm"

So, the writing that disapplies the parking offer is in small font and only visible if you
(a) come onto the land
(b) park
(c) Read an apparently unlit sign

By which time you are arguably already in breach of the parking provision anyway. 

Alternatively, one might venture that you were never offered parking, so have not breached any parking obligations because whilst you can accept an offer you can't accept a prohibition.

ie. If you're given free parking you can abide by the rules of parking as part of the contract. But you were never offered free parking nor were you able to comply with any provision without being in immediate breach - they may as well have put up a sign saying "drive past this line, you owe me £100"

Anyway, I'm sure you'll find something to say.... 

Redx

1) If this PCN arrived in the post , it actually is the NTK , meaning the appeal by day 26 doesn't apply.

As a postal NTK PCN , you have 28 days to appeal it

2) private parking signs always leave issues behind , as Johnersh pointed out , large font for 2 hours , less so for any restrictions

The BPA CoP version 8 dated January 2020 advises on grace periods in clause 13 , download it and read it , unlit signage in small font is more difficult to read , to understand , to leave promptly once deciphered !

3) Popla is an online service only , it's never been in person , a POPLA appeal is uploaded as a pdf choosing OTHER

Trainerman

ahsan said:

Trainerman said:

Not wanting to get your hopes up too much, but if that first sign is by the entrance and the other is one that you have to look for and you were only there for 10 mins, perhaps you have a defence under the grace period that you should be allowed to find the signs and read them

thank you - I was few seconds above 10 minutes - is there any rule around grace period, if yes how long is the grace period?

I think the BPA cut it to five minutes, but then the BPA is a self serving nonsense. I think though that if all else fails, you could argue in court that ten minutes and a few seconds is a reasonable time to find/read signs with small print ( in the dark too ??). @Johnersh and @Redx are well worth taking note of. Follow their advice

Coupon-mad

As @Redx pointed out. That is the NTK.

What time was the car captured going in?  That contract is badly drafted and you can easily appeal talking about the signs being unlit and only the 2 hours offer was readable.

...but did you arrive before 10.30pm as per the time that the NTK?

ahsan

Coupon-mad said:

As @Redx pointed out. That is the NTK.

What time was the car captured going in?  That contract is badly drafted and you can easily appeal talking about the signs being unlit and only the 2 hours offer was readable.

...but did you arrive before 10.30pm as per the time that the NTK?

Thank you everyone for all your support.

Under the 2 hours it does say refer to terms and conditions though. I entered at 7 AM and left 10 minutes and 2 seconds after.

Johnersh

Under the 2 hours it does say refer to terms and conditions though. I entered at 7 AM and left 10 minutes and 2 seconds after

And did you read that as you drove in?

Have the terms recently changed?

And, if we're being honest, it probably takes 5 mins to drive into a car park, park a car and to wander up to a sign. It probably takes 3 mins to read the sign and small print. It then takes 5 mins to decide not to park and leave.

The o/p was probably on site for not much longer than it would have taken even had s/he followed the steps above.