smart parking charge-machine not working

upferret

Hi, i have read the newbies thread but wanted somebody to confirm what I need to do please.  I have received a parking penalty form smart parking dated 22/10.  The date it occurred is 2/10.  On that day I parked and found the parking machine to be broken, I took a photo of the blank screen (i dont know if that proves anything though?) and when entering the shop (poundstretchers) i asked the staff about it and they said it was "nothing to do with them", even though the car park is for use of poundstretchers customers and they refund the charge when you spend £5 in store. 

I have emailed poundstretchers and have asked if they can cancel it but Im guessing they'll say i have to appeal to smart parking. (it says on the sign that the manager of poundstretchers cannot help with charges)


should I now appeal via smart parking website?  if so , do I just use the generic template or do I add that the ticket machine was broken? surely they must have a record of it not working that day? thankyou.

Redx

It's not a penalty or a fine , it's a parking charge notice , an invoice !

Use the blue text template by coupon mad , add a line that an occupant of the vehicle found that the PDT ticket machine was faulty , proof was obtained and so the issue is one of frustration of contract

Do this as keeper , do not blab about who was driving , no inferring it either , leave them guessing , like a no comment interview

There is no keeper liability with a Smart Parking PCN , but do check it for compliance with POFA , or not , first

upferret

thankyou!, how do I check it for compliance with POFA?  I was in the car park for a total of 24 minutes, in which I found the machine faulty, went into the shop, asked about it and returned then left. I forgot to add that.

Redx

The newbies FAQ sticky thread explains it , the golden ticket !! You did say that you had read it !!

Check the timeline , check the wording , against POFA

The timeline you gave above fails the POFA 14 days rule , doesn't it ?

If they failed POFA , it's a slam dunk win , so who cares about what happened ?  Just you , and Smart of course !

upferret

Redx said:

The newbies FAQ sticky thread explains it , the golden ticket !! You did say that you had read it !!

Check the timeline , check the wording , against POFA

The timeline you gave above fails the POFA 14 days rule , doesn't it ?

If they failed POFA , it's a slam dunk win , so who cares about what happened ?  Just you , and Smart of course !

I promise I read it all!  I dont fully understand it all though. 

I did see the bit where is says it needs to be received within 14 days but I cant find out what wording  I need to add to the template to state that.do I abandon the blue template then and state theyve failed POFA? or just add to the template that they did?

Redx

I told you what to add to it, besides adding that they have failed POFA as well , once you have checked that non compliant NTK for wording and timescales

the newbies explains how to check the wording on your NTK PCN against the 9 year old law named POFA, compare it to a typical Parking Eye NTK PCN for example

if it took 20 days to arrive, then surely you can see that it failed the POFA timeline of 14 days to arrive ? hence why I said check against POFA, because to me you have a golden ticket, no keeper liability, which is why I did not focus on what happened on the incident date , its irrelevant

if SMART decide to not comply with the law about keepers, as a keeper , who are you to argue

nobody should abandon the blue template, but nobody is stopping you adding 2 additional points, about an occupant ( not THE occupant ) of the vehicle and the faulty machine , plus add that they have failed to comply with POFA as well ( so those are IN ADDITION to the template )

learn to follow the advice given , dont go making up your own system, because our tried and tested system works, your naive one wont work

IMHO you have a golden ticket case, so use it , as a keeper (not as a driver)

upferret

how about this-

"Re PCN number:  

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

The payment machine was in fact not working on the day of this occurrence,so no payment could be made. once this was realised, the staff in poundstretcher were informed of this and the driver left the car park 24 minutes from entering it.

your PCN does not meet the Protection of information act act 2012 paragraaph 9- which states 

(4)

The notice must be given by—

(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.

(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales."

This PCN was issued 20 days after the alleged occurance and delivered 24 days after which is 10 days after the time period specified by the protection of freedoms act 2012.

Redx

here is the part you missed, in the first post in the newbies FAQ sticky thread that you skimmed over , notice the words SMART PARKING

Want to dig deeper? Check the compliance of your Notice to Keeper, if the PPC is citing 'keeper liability' under the POFA. Here's a link to Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 which applies in England/Wales only (look for the words shown in paragraph 8 if it's a 'windscreen ticket followed by a NTK', or the words in paragraph 9 if it's a postal PCN only):

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

If the NTK arrives late, this does not make the PCN 'void' but it means there is 'no keeper liability' possible.

If they are a firm which alleges 'keeper liability' under the POFA 2012 (which they don't have to!) the a postal PCN must arrive by day 14 if there was no windscreen ticket.

Or, the NTK must arrive with you between day 29 and day 57 if there was a windscreen PCN.

Some firms (e.g. Civil Enforcement, Highview, Smart Parking, CP Plus and some small PPCs) don't even bother with POFA 2012 wording so the keeper is not liable and you must you point that out to POPLA.

Redx

now copy and paste your adapted KEEPER appeal below, to include the extra items that I mentioned tacked onto that blue text template

Redx

upferret said:

how about this-

"Re PCN number:  

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

The payment machine was in fact not working on the day of this occurrence,so no payment could be made. once this was realised, the staff in poundstretcher were informed of this and the driver left the car park 24 minutes from entering it due to frustration of contract.

your PCN does not meet the Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 paragraph 9- which states 

(4)

The notice must be given by—

(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.

(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales."

This PCN was issued 20 days after the alleged occurance and delivered 24 days after which is 10 days after the time period specified by the protection of freedoms act 2012.

yes, that seems ok , now submit it as keeper online, no falling into any DRIVER traps   they are sneaky

ps:- you didnt mention frustration of contract, so I have added it and corrected spelling mistakes too

upferret

thats great thankyou!  Ill submit the appeal on their website now, thanks again!