UKPC PCN - Should I appeal?

webchimpx

Hi,

I have read the Newbies Sticky - I have enacted plan A - appealing to the retail company on which my vehicle was parked.

I am after some information on what will likely be the ultimate outcome and whether it's better to either pay the scammers or follow due process as clearly articulated in the Newby thread.

Here are the facts:

- The charge is from UKPC
- I forgot to pay for a ticket (I know I know....)
- I received a windscreen PCN with a reason for the fine of "Parking without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket"
- The charge is for £100/£60
- The £100/£60 charge is marked on all signage in the car park EXCEPT the one by the exit and the ticket machine, which refers to £60/£35
- Photos clearly show my vehicle parked, but do not show the detail of the parking sign
- RingGo parking app is in operation in the car park

My defence would include technicalities such as:

- RingGo mobile parking is available to pay for parking, therefore displaying a valid pay and display ticket is not a requirement
- Your signage states £60/£35, whereas your windscreen notice states £100/£60, therefore your charge is incorrect

What would likely happen in this case please?

Many thanks for your support in this matter.

Regards

Redx

Check your NTK PCN to see if it complies with POFA , that is part of plan B , before any appeal is made

If it doesn't , then appeal as keeper using the blue text template , because if they have failed to comply with POFA then there is no keeper liability , regardless of the circumstances

The ultimate outcome is Court , within 6 years

So get it quashed now , asap , you don't want court

Coupon-mad

The £100/£60 charge is marked on all signage in the car park EXCEPT the one by the exit and the ticket machine, which refers to £60/£35.

That's a winning point for POPLA.  Show us pics of these signs!  Never seen a £60/£35 sign from UKPC.

You know not to appeal until day 26 anyway, so plenty of time to get some photos.

D_P_Dance

Have you complained to your MP?

D_P_Dance

Of course you should appeal, read these

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6242993/court-report-brentford-telephone-ukpc-roasted#latest

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3229165/Is-PROOF-private-parking-firms-scamming-motorists-Drivers-say-timings-photos-doctored-legally-parked-cars-issued-fines.html

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/324523-ukpc-liable-for-trespass-success/

webchimpx

Coupon-mad said:

The £100/£60 charge is marked on all signage in the car park EXCEPT the one by the exit and the ticket machine, which refers to £60/£35.

That's a winning point for POPLA.  Show us pics of these signs!  Never seen a £60/£35 sign from UKPC.

You know not to appeal until day 26 anyway, so plenty of time to get some photos.

@Coupon-mad - My apologies - it was a £50/35 sign - here it is in case it's still of interest:



Update:

- It is now 72 days since my vehicle was issued a windscreen PCN
- I have not received a NTK through the post
- I have received a letter via email from UKPC including a POPLA code, an extract from which I have pasted below.

Interestingly there is a line within it which states the PCN does not meet the requirements of PoFA 2012. I find this strange as they are basically shooting themselves in the foot in regards to the POPLA appeal I will submit before the 28 day deadline.

"Dear Mr webchimpx

Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to the above Parking Charge.

We have noted that you, as the registered keeper, have denied that you are the driver of the vehicle, however refuse to provide us with the information of the driver. It is therefore your perception that we cannot pursue you. Unfortunately, this is not correct.

The notice that was issued to you was initially issued to you on your windscreen. This was then removed by yourself which you then proceeded to appeal on our website, admitting that you were the driver, as you had picked up the parking charge notice off your windscreen before leaving our car park – this is an acceptance of service of the Parking Charge Notice.

As we are out of time to request the keeper’s details from the DVLA, this Parking Charge Notice does not meet the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. However, it is a misconception that non POFA notices cannot be used to hold you liable for the outstanding charge. It is our position that there is a rebuttable presumption that you, the person who had responded to the Parking Charge Notice with your appeal, were the driver at the time of the parking event, and therefore are liable for the charge as incurred. You have not provided us with evidence to the contrary.

In light of the above and the information you have submitted, we confirm that this parking charge was correctly issued because there are sufficient signs at
 advising drivers that vehicles .

Our appeals process is now concluded.

..."

Thanks for your consideration.

D_P_Dance

Read it again, theyb are saying that you have admitted to being the driver and ..therefore POFA is irrelevant.  

KeithP

The notice that was issued to you was initially issued to you on your windscreen. This was then removed by yourself which you then proceeded to appeal on our website, admitting that you were the driver, as you had picked up the parking charge notice off your windscreen before leaving our car park – this is an acceptance of service of the Parking Charge Notice.

That's surely a joke.

Another, more likely, possibility is that the driver removed the Notice to Driver from the windscreen and subsequently passed it to the keeper.

They say you admitted to being the driver in your appeal. Is that true?

Can you please show us your appeal?

webchimpx

D_P_Dance said:

Read it again, theyb are saying that you have admitted to being the driver and ..therefore POFA is irrelevant.  

Hi @D_P_Dance - I have not provided details of the driver, after having submitted the blue initial template response from this forum. No other correspondence has been entered into.

This is noted in the correspondence from UKPC:

"We have noted that you, as the registered keeper, have denied that you are the driver of the vehicle, however refuse to provide us with the information of the driver. It is therefore your perception that we cannot pursue you. Unfortunately, this is not correct."

Am I missing something?

D_P_Dance

Perhaps I am, I lave others to sort this out.  

webchimpx

KeithP said:

The notice that was issued to you was initially issued to you on your windscreen. This was then removed by yourself which you then proceeded to appeal on our website, admitting that you were the driver, as you had picked up the parking charge notice off your windscreen before leaving our car park – this is an acceptance of service of the Parking Charge Notice.

That's surely a joke.

Another, more likely, possibility is that the driver removed the Notice to Driver from the windscreen and subsequently passed it to the keeper.

They say you admitted to being the driver in your appeal. Is that true?

Can you please show us your appeal?

Hi @KeithP - No driver details have been passed to UKPC.  I used the blue template from the sticky thread and have not entered into any further correspondence with them at this stage.  I find the tone and content of their latest letter strange.  If this an automated template - it really is of very poor quality, if it's been written by a human, well, the same....  

Yes - I think the more plausible possibility is as you say - the driver handed me the PCN