What should the unit prices be to cover wholesale prices?

pochase

I believe you get it the wrong way around. The gap between the prices does not mean much.

Going from the figures you quoted looking at an ASHP it cost you at a COP of 2.5 this much to generate 2.5KWh heat

Oct 21 - ~16p     20p/4p    - Gas 10p / Electricity 20p
April 22 - ~20p    27p/7p - Gas 17.5p / Electricity 27p
Oct 22 - ~30p ?   44p/14p - Gas 35p / Electricity 44p

If you can reach 3.0 the cost for 3KWh of heat will be almost the same using gas 42p and electricity 44p in October.

Mstty

Sea_Shell said:

Is it my imagination or is the gap, in pence, between a unit of gas and a unit of electricity getting bigger?? 

Oct 21 - ~16p     20p/4p    
April 22 - ~20p    27p/7p
Oct 22 - ~30p ?   44p/14p

I thought the idea was to move people away from fossil fuel (gas), but if the October/January predictions are to believed, the gap is getting wider.

What am I missing?    I can see that in percentage terms the gap is shrinking between the 2, but how does that effect peoples pockets.   Is it actually making the move to gas less attractive in real terms?  

Gas, per unit, was 5x cheaper, but it looks like it'll only be 3x cheaper going forwards.

What next, only 2x cheaper!!!   

There is a reason behind this and it's to move everyone away from gas to electricity.

Now the ratio will be closer to 3:1 that means technology such as heat pumps become equal and in most cases cheaper to run than gas boilers.

Sea_Shell

Mstty said:

Sea_Shell said:

Is it my imagination or is the gap, in pence, between a unit of gas and a unit of electricity getting bigger?? 

Oct 21 - ~16p     20p/4p    
April 22 - ~20p    27p/7p
Oct 22 - ~30p ?   44p/14p

I thought the idea was to move people away from fossil fuel (gas), but if the October/January predictions are to believed, the gap is getting wider.

What am I missing?    I can see that in percentage terms the gap is shrinking between the 2, but how does that effect peoples pockets.   Is it actually making the move to gas less attractive in real terms?  

Gas, per unit, was 5x cheaper, but it looks like it'll only be 3x cheaper going forwards.

What next, only 2x cheaper!!!   

There is a reason behind this and it's to move everyone away from gas to electricity.

Now the ratio will be closer to 3:1 that means technology such as heat pumps become equal and in most cases cheaper to run than gas boilers.

I see.

And the cost of one of these installations retro fitted to a typical 3 bed semi (even if remotely suitable) is....

Sea_Shell

I'm also guessing that the maths doesn't work if you have "old fashioned" electric heaters.

victor2

Electric heating has traditionally always been much, much more expensive than gas. I suppose with heat pumps effectively being so efficient, particularly when correctly installed in new builds, the gap is narrowing. But, as you say @Sea_Shell, what would it cost to retro fit such a system, and hence what would the payback time be (if there was one)?

pochase

Sea_Shell said:

I'm also guessing that the maths doesn't work if you have "old fashioned" electric heaters.

If you have a radiator or panel heater you need 1KWh of electricity to generate 1KWh of heat, so it only works ASHP or GSHP that are able to generate more in heat than you put in in electricity.

QrizB

Sea_Shell said:

Is it my imagination or is the gap, in pence, between a unit of gas and a unit of electricity getting bigger??

Yes, It takes about 2.5 units of gas to make 1 unit of electricity, so when the price of gas goes up, the price of electricity should go up by 2.5 times as much.
Oct 21 - ~16p     20p/4p    
April 22 - ~21p    28p/7.3p     <--Gas up 3.3p, electricity up 8p (2.4x)
Oct 22 - ~30p ?   44p/14p  <--Gas up 7p, electricity up 17p (2.5x)

Mstty

Except not all electricity is produced by burning gas.

Hence why there was talk of removing this link between gas and electricity calculation from future electricity pricing which means it would drop further.

I wonder how those talks are going. Hoping they are going well as an electric only household for selfish reasons lol

Sea_Shell

Looks like the Gas prices have spiked (or are spiking) again!

BBC - Natural Gas up almost 52%, to 337p/therm

QrizB

Sea_Shell said:

Looks like the Gas prices have spiked (or are spiking) again!
BBC - Natural Gas up almost 52%, to 337p/therm

Yes, today's closing prices put gas at about 14p/kWh wholesale (17-18p/kWh retail) through winter 2022, and still 10p/kWh (12-13p/kWh retail) through all of 2023.

Let's hope they come back down.