Leaking problem, can't find the culprit source

warwick2001

Good morning all,

Hope everyone is well. After some more advice from you knowledgeable people, specifically builders/double glazing experts.

I bought my house 14 years ago, the conservatory was already fitted when bought, so could be possibly 20 years old. To start with, all was well. And then......

As per title, my house leaks, and shows at the door frame between house and Conservatory (from now on referred to as Con). I've included a host of pics to hopefully show the problem. This only happens when its heavy rain, and very windy. When it rains but no wind, no leak. I live in the West Coast of Cumbria, so we get alot of days like these.

View from inside house



View from inside Con



Close up of door fitting from inside house



Close up of door fitting from inside Con



Close up of door fitting




Work I have done to try and eliminate reasons for leak and solve this problem:

Replace house roof felt/broken tiles, new guttering, new plastic fascia, new 'waterproof' render, new flashing. I even tried cavity trays, but the problem persisted.

I'm at my wits end!!! I think the water is getting in between 1st floor window and Con roof level as if it was getting in higher (i.e. the house roof) I would expect to see water marks somewhere else i.e. the window is directly above where the leak comes in (about 3 foot up from the Con roof), but there's no marks at all around the window frame. I would have thought if the water is getting in at roof level, it would run down the cavity, hit the window frame/lintel and pool out from there. This does not appear to happen. Also, in the loft you can see the top of the cavity walls (inner and outer skins), and they both appear to be bone dry.

Please note we are currently selling our house, so are trying to find an easy fix. But in the same breath we do not want to do another bodge job and leave it for the new occupants once sold. That would ruin their initial experiences of the house, and wouldn't be the right thing to do.

Many thanks for any help/advice.  

stuart45

There should be a cavity tray fitted where the flashing goes.into the joint.

warwick2001

stuart45 said:

There should be a cavity tray fitted where the flashing goes.into the joint.

Thanks Stuart

I had cavity trays retro-fitted, but this didn't solve the problem

I've just edited my original post to reflect the roofer findings, see post below.

warwick2001

So, just had the roofer round, the water is DEFINITELY not getting in under the flashing. He lifted it, and its bone dry under there. So where the water is getting in is an absolute mystery?! We now think the water is getting in somewhere between the upstairs window and the Con roof, but there are no visual defects that stick out.

After a discussion with my wife, she thinks that when the house was re-rendered (after the cavity trays were fitted (which didn't solve the problem), the cavity trays were removed by the plasterer??? Obviously this is something we will need to look into further.

However, this still doesn't answer how the heck the water gets in in the first place. And its not just a drop or two, its Niagara Falls in here! The roofer is going to come back on a dry day, and we'll start at the top, and just pour water here, there and everywhere, and hopefully figure it out. However, if anyone has any suggestions as where the water might be getting in, that would be a good starting point.

stuart45

Have you got a photo of the area above the flashing?

warwick2001

I'll try get one asap

stuart45

warwick2001 said:

After a discussion with my wife, she thinks that when the house was re-rendered (after the cavity trays were fitted (which didn't solve the problem), the cavity trays were removed by the plasterer??? Obviously this is something we will need to look into further.

I don't see how the spread removed them, you would have to cut the brickwork out to remove them. If there were weep holes in he might have blocked them up.
If the trays were correctly installed with weeps no water should be able to get past them.

warwick2001

Ok, pics from outside:

The leak in under the far left window (the one with the alarm next to it. You can see the door leading into the house through the Con windows. As you can see, the leak is almost directly under the window on the left.



Close up under that window:



And to the side of it:



And finally further down. You can see a piece of render missing, this was where the old flashing came out to. It will be patched shortly, but we are pretty sure it is not the site of the water ingress (as even when covered with flashing the leak was present).



And before it's pointed out to me, I know the new render has been done on top of the old stuff. I questioned this at the time, but the guy who did it said its not a problem. It might be a problem, but I listened to the professional I paid to do the job. He said he removed any of the old stuff that had blown or was cracked (which was hardly any).

warwick2001

stuart45 said:

warwick2001 said:

After a discussion with my wife, she thinks that when the house was re-rendered (after the cavity trays were fitted (which didn't solve the problem), the cavity trays were removed by the plasterer??? Obviously this is something we will need to look into further.

I don't see how the spread removed them, you would have to cut the brickwork out to remove them. If there were weep holes in he might have blocked them up.
If the trays were correctly installed with weeps no water should be able to get past them.

Hi Stuart,

Firstly, thanks for helping.

I'll try and describe what happened the best I can (i did have pics, but I can't find them on my phone).

A builder came and fitted cavity trays, removing brick-work etc. He then patched over the repairs with render, and left weep holes, so I assume these were fitted correctly, but I didn't see the trays/brickwork before he rendered. 

The leaking continued.

Having spoken to the builder, he then advised that the render was blown/cracked, and the water was getting in that way, and he recommended a plasterer to do the work. After about 8 months, the plasterer came to do the job. When he started chipping off the old render, he uncovered the work the builder had done. And it was to a shocking standard (mis-fitting bricks with loads of mortar in pretty big holes, random stones chucked in to fill gaps etc). I was appalled, but obviously this doesn't mean that the cavity trays weren't doing their job. However, the plasterer said that as the trays didn't prevent the leaking into the house, they were obviously not fitted correctly. He then advised that as the render he was using was waterproof, there would be no need for the cavity trays as the water wouldn't be able to penetrate the render, hence no leak. This kinda made sense in my head, and as I was desperate to stop the water ingress I was believing pretty much anything. Plus, as this is my first house I didn't have any experience to call upon.

Obviously this didn't work either.

My main concern is that if I can't find the source of the leak, although cavity trays will get the water out, they can't prevent the water getting in in the first place. Or should I not bother about trying to stop the water getting in, and just concentrate on getting it out?

stuart45

Some water might be tracking in at the bottom of the black window surround where it meets the render. A fair bit of water will run off the window and down into that area. There isn't a cill with a drip to keep the water away.
It does sound like the trays were badly fitted, as when done properly they work well.

warwick2001

stuart45 said:

Some water might be tracking in at the bottom of the black window surround where it meets the render. A fair bit of water will run off the window and down into that area. There isn't a cill with a drip to keep the water away.
It does sound like the trays were badly fitted, as when done properly they work well.

Thanks Stuart.

The run off you describe, would that be sufficient to penetrate through a layer of (admittedly old) render, and a complete brick (or the mortar), and run down the cavity? Or do you mean its getting in without having to get though the old render/brick/mortar? 

And can you get/retro-fit cill's with a drip-off? (apologies for all the questions)