Been Blackmailed By Barclays - Advice Please

JustJinny

THIS IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER LONG RESPONSE ..... WITH AN UPDATE AT THE VERY END! .... Sorry!

I apologise for the length of post - but I have Aspergers, and am completely unable to Summerise (as some of you may have noticed - Sorry!) - as I don't have the ability to know what's important and what's not, so I put it all in case it helps someone advise me better. I'm so sorry, everyone!!!!

I have been in an emotional and mental panic all night - that is of course reflected in my post, making it longer - which I guess, I was really posting because a) I wanted to know if anyone else had experiences like this, because I honestly felt so very foolish for being treated like this, and allowing it all to happen out of fear of reprisals (abuse survivor mentality, unfortunately) -...... and

b) What is a possible solution to this all?   - because I felt so deeply shocked at the treatment - still do actually .............. but I have an update (posted at the bottom) - AND SO SORRY THIS IS ANOTHER LONG POST TOO - But someone in this situation, might find it helpful, maybe?   ...

But first to clarify (now I'm in a better place), and to answer a few things from commenters above.

My original questions to the Bank - (and the only reason I called - or I may well have found my Account had been shut on 31st, as the Notice of Termination states the 2nd - but their system now says 31st) ... were:

1) WHEN (there was no question of not paying, and I was WELL below the overdraft limit by several hundred) I clear my account, on the 1st November 2021 (the agreement was to end - according to the notice - on the 2nd November) - Would the Account go back to what it was before - with the previous Overdraft allowance - and accompanying Interest Rate - or is there a change to the previous limit amount, and a higher interest rate?...

   Both - being a business - I would have thought were reasonable moves - if a bit sucky, but it's business and they have a right to deter people from owing them money.

2) If there was any chance of an extension of that date, until March 2022? - or is there any other assistance available? ......

    If no - then so be it - no problem - it's a business. I get it.... I'll still zero the account on 1st November - and then will just find a way to sort out the new Overdraft Charges, no matter the impact on my life - as it's not the Bank's fault I'm in debt to them... It's fine. I get it. No problem there either.

3) Until my Mother's Funeral expenses - (which started in February 2021) finally end in March 2022 - happened to me, I had only been in overdraft once before, (with my only Bank Account, which I opened in Barclays in the early 1990s).  This was to hire my 2nd Graduation Gown for Uni, in 2008 and was cleared the following week. 

It has purely been the expenses for the Funeral that has messed me up, and legal fees for the issues surrounding that, as my 80 yr old Dad was conned out of £2,500, by someone alleging to be in the Funeral Industry (I have a legal case pending, when we actually  find the person) and offered us a particular service for the Funeral, but instead he took the money and vanished.  Dad's not so hot with money - and I had to pay his bills for a while to the tune of that amount, so I knew I was in trouble financially, because of those situations - but rather me than Dad, as I can find a way to sort things out, and he doesn't need the worry at his age.   ..... So I rang the Bank to see if there was anything to do about the Overdraft Charges, and to inform them, that for 12 months, I would be in a sticky patch - but I'd sort it.    It was them, that suggested an Informal Agreement to help me out, for 150 days.  I had never expected it, nor heard of it - and was thrilled that I was finally catching a break for the first time in my life.

They told me then, that this would end in the first week of November.  This was fine, and I accepted all the T's & C's very happily.  So when the Termination Notice came - I was fine with that.... However I literally only called them just to check my points 1 & 2, so I'd know where I stood... and then it all went wrong - starting with the guy telling me, that once the Agreement ends, that there would be NO Overdraft allowance whatsoever, and the Account would be closed, when the money was gone, and any attempt made to go into arrears would be made.  This turned out to be entirely untrue too.

4) My other point being with him - was the Agreement Termination ends on 2nd November 2021 - which is what the letter said.  Ending yesterday, would incur me 7 days of interest charges, unnecessarily... when I had full intention (and he could see the regular payments going back 3 years on the 1st of every month - but where there were 31 days - it was in on 31st day - he admitted this too) to clear everything to 0:00 Balance, (and maybe £10 in credit), BY Midnight on 1st November (so 31st into 1st)...... but he insisted I end the Agreement early, and pay the interest charges and 2 other fabricated charges.  He actually first insisted my Agreement ended in September and had got other charges.  This turned out to be untrue.

5)  The Blackmail point: -  EskBanker above stated:

21 Blackmail.

(1) A person is guilty of blackmail if, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another, he makes any unwarranted demand with menaces; and for this purpose a demand with menaces is unwarranted unless the person making it does so in the belief—

(a) that he has reasonable grounds for making the demand; and

(b) that the use of the menaces is a proper means of reinforcing the demand.

(2) The nature of the act or omission demanded is immaterial, and it is also immaterial whether the menaces relate to action to be taken by the person making the demand.

(3) A person guilty of blackmail shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.

I believe that this man IS guilty of Blackmail....  for the following actions. .... Bear in mind - I openly stated right at the very beginning and several times throughout, that the money would be in BEFORE the end of Agreement date - over 24hrs before - and on the balance of probabilities, from previous actions in the Account for the last years - funds were in that Account on those dates, effectively clearing the Overdraft, that was rarely more than a couple hundred in the 3rd week of the Month.   He WAS making "unwarranted demand with menaces" in demanding I pay immediately - or face the consequences; and so on...

• The Call handler, was mentioning Charges I neither knew about, that were not visible on my end on the App, and dates that didn't make sense, and he was demanding payment, over the phone, with him, for them, OR he'd close my Account.
• He started threatening me, that if I didn't pay up immediately to clear the Overdraft and Charges - (in spite of saying he could see payments entering the Account on the 31st and 1st, historically, that were more than the sum of the current Overdraft) - via another credit card, that he would shut my Account -
• OR -  if I hung up and tried to speak to someone else (he refused to put me through to anyone else either) - he would shut my account -
• OR  - if I didn't end the Agreement early (and later, that changed to end the Agreement early, and accept the money) - he would shut my Account.  .... (meaning that it would cause me loss by intent)
  

It was only AFTER I was in tears, and the call breached 3 hours 20 minutes mark, with me refusing to make a decision, and stating, "I can't make a decision  -Can I go away and think about it?, because I just don't understand these other dates and charges" and him replying "NO!" - purely because I didn't understand what he was on about and because he was deliberately (I believe) confusing me - and I was really trying hard to understand (I'm actually a Mensa member - and am blessed not to have learning or comprehension issues - but I just can't summerise for anything! lol)  how these ficticious charges were generated, and the mis-match of dates of End Of Termination - that he suddenly said he'd give me £25 "for distress and inconvenience"...       and because I kept explaining how if I ended the thing early, that I would incur additional Overdraft Charges, as the account wasn't zero now, and I still needed to use that Overdraft (with still an additional £500+ to go before reaching the limit that I've never been near before) that he said I'd have to call back in December and ask for the Charges to be refunded - but only to a max of the current balance - so £3.40p. 

BUT - if I didn't agree to end the Agreement early - I would NOT get the £25, and I would NOT get the £3.40p - AND he'd close my Account! .... when the £25 was allegedly for "Distress and Inconvenience" - and nothing to do with the actions on the Account as such...  I didn't realise at that point either, that the £3.40p, would not be sufficient, to cover the Charges I'd not have got, under the Terms of my Agreement for the remaining 7 days.  I'd been honest too - that I still needed to use the Account further this week.... so he knew very well, that the Charges would go above the £3.40p - but said nothing.

THAT is where the Blackmail lies, in my opinion. .....  Basically - he said I NEED to do XYZ - or deal with the Consequences (ie, pay him, or have my Account closed).  

He himself made the decision to end the Agreement early without asking me first - AND put the money in my account without my permission.  Leaving me in a bad position, financially, in terms of getting me extra charges, I wouldn't have incurred for the next 7 days.  Then he told me off for making him miss his break, but at least he could go early! 

Zx81 commented that I basically should be happy as I'd been given money... but how could I be, after being threatened inappropriately, and then later realising that it left me in a worse position of debt, than if I'd not been given the money - especially with the cost of the phone call, which they earn from! It was also done without consent or permission.  

He also opened a Complaint at my request - and then closed it without my permission, recording on it that I was "happy with the outcome" - which most definitely, was not the case, and I'd made it clear too!


=====================================================

UPDATE:

So - I called the Bank back today (as per one of the advices given above) - and they were deeply shocked.  3 Call Handlers agreed that it sounded like Blackmail, but they were not legal experts (2 mentioned the word without my input, but as they hadn't heard the call, they couldn't comment on the Handler further),  and after review - informed me that he'd also tried to send the closed Complaint to Archive - but it had failed to go through, so they could still see the complaint, but that the call Handler trying to archive it, in itself was unsual. They have re-opened the Case, but said that the date on the system certainly now reads the 31st October - but they have no explanation for that date being there.  They have checked the letter and agree that it says the 2nd November - and this is usually generated directly from the system.  Yes it is possible for an operator to change that date.

The lady who ended up with my call, was really lovely - she admitted she was a little out of her depth with this "very serious matter" as she called it, having only starting in April, and went back and forth to her Manager - coming back to me to update me that she was still there, frequently between holds - apologising profusely (as did all 4 people I spoke to today at the Bank) - and assuring me that this was not the usual conduct of the Bank's staff. 

They gave me the Call Handler's full name (the man who blackmailed me), and a Reference Number, and a contact phone number for the Senior Manager who is helping the Case.

They couldn't explain the charges he'd mentioned to me - as there is no mention on their screen of them.

They couldn't explain the threats of Account closure during the call - as he had no authority to do so.   Also payments would be done via the App, or website, or in person - I assume they were implying that he himself would have no authority to take payments over the phone via another Credit Card - but they didn't say.  They kept saying how shocked they were, how sorry they were, and that this is not normal conduct for their staff.

Comments he'd said he'd recorded, in various notes sections, and read back to me, refusing to make changes where I wanted specific references made - were not there, and the sections were entirely empty.

They asked me what I wanted to happen, regarding the Account - so they could look into options for me:

They could not re-open the Agreement for the remaining days, as something was stopping that happening (they are going to investigate) and the date - for whatever mysterious reason - now reads 31st October, and therefore, being a weekend - there would be nothing to stop the system just shutting the Account on that date - as it's all on auto-pilot that day....so it's now basically a case of: clear it by 12am on Friday 29th now, or lose the Account... but I don't have money until 31st, so the safest option, is for the Account to remain, now, out of Agreement and get Overdraft Charges (that are still over the offered £3.40p) anyway!

I told the Bank truthfully - while I hope not to get to the limit (I haven't in the whole time I've had the Agreement) I DO need to purchase my month's meds, that the NHS don't cover, and buy food for the week (the date of these tasks is the same for these, every Month... I'm a creature of habit).... so the Overdraft amount would rise - therefore interest would rise.....  SO,  I asked if there was any way - that the Bank would consider covering those charges, as long as it doesn't breach the limit set in the Agreement, UNTIL midnight on 2nd November 2021 ONLY - the previous Agreement end date.  I said to the lady, I know it is a huge ask - but I'd be eternally grateful to be excused these last few days of charges, and I was ok to pick up the Charges again after that date - as per the Agreement - as I was aware there was not other support, and that's fine.  She spoke to her Manager.... and was back very quickly with the message of "Yes! It is the least we can do, given what's happened". 

They also said to call in November, and not wait for December, to get any outstanding Overdraft Charges covered.  I honestly couldn't thank them enough!  The relief!

I was also advised to raise another complaint with them about it - which we did - AND that I should also take it to the Financial Ombudsman regarding the dates, and anything else, once I'd got the Complaints Paperwork and Email through, to review.

The Call today, lasted over 3 hours too - but they were all struggling to figure out what had happened, and why this guy was saying what he did, and so on.

They also said I should send in copies of my itemised phone bill, which they would cover too, for these calls.  Unfortunately, some departments in the Bank are unable to phone customers themselves, as they are still running under Covid Measures, but in some cases they will refund Calls of extended natures.

They apparently can make special exceptions to the not dialing out rule - as they called me this evening on a private number, to see if I had managed to calm down, and was ok, and assured me that they were looking into this, and taking the matter very seriously, and if there was anything at all that they could do for me - that I'm to get in touch immediately. .... they sadly, were unable to supply me with the next weekend's Lottery Jackpot winning, numbers. and we ended the call on a laugh over that question.  I was really surprised that they called me, but it was nice to think they cared. 

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Once again - I am so very sorry for my VERY long posts - I really can't help it - and thanks to you for your patience, if you read it all - you can have your lives back now! 

Thank you!!!!

Brie

Thanks for the update.  I'm pleased you were able to talk to people more supportive.  

I do know it's true that some individuals work in areas where they only deal with incoming calls but a complaint should end up with a team that can make outgoing calls so hopefully someone will be able to call you rather than you run up more charges.  I would also think that you shouldn't need to provide an itemised phone bill....in the circumstances they should be able to compensate you at a reasonable rate - maybe £10 an hour or something.  

Best of luck with getting everything sorted - you sound much stronger now than you did originally!

eskbanker

Sounds like things are starting to head in the right direction - I'd suggest that you split the matter into two different issues and deal with them separately:

The account itself and the overdraft - if I understand you correctly, an agreed temporary waiver of overdraft charges expires within the next few days, and, despite what the obnoxious call handler said, they're now effectively willing to honour the original agreement.  Before this all kicked off, what was your expectation of what would happen after that, and is that still on the cards, i.e. does the account stay open and does it still have an overdraft facility on standard terms?  If they haven't confirmed all this to you in some form of writing rather than just verbally, then it might be worth pushing for this, sooner rather than later.

The conduct of the call handler - I think you'd benefit from more time to consider this, rather than being rushed into it.  As I suggested yesterday, I believe that getting hold of a copy of the call recording would allow you (and trusted family or friends) to listen back to it at your leisure and reflect on what was said.  I'm still unconvinced that there's any merit in trying to attach a label of 'blackmail' to it, but you were obviously put under a lot of undue pressure and it sounds like a formal complaint would be entirely justified, but you shouldn't feel that you need to pursue that immediately on the phone, and it's probably worth spending some time composing a structured assessment of how inappropriate it was.  You might get trusted family or friends to help you capture the key points succinctly, but to me this situation would be better resolved in writing.

[Deleted User]

eskbanker said:

JustJinny said:

Today - I have just realised how much, I have been very successfully Blackmailed... (Legal definition: "Blackmail involves a threat to do something that would cause a person to suffer embarrassment or financial loss, unless that person meets certain demands.")... by a Call Handler who works for the Collections Department at Barclays Bank PLC.

That's an extraordinarily lengthy post, the salient facts of which could probably be condensed into a fraction of that, but just to pick up on your assertion that it's blackmail, the actual legal definition in the UK is given in section 21 of the Theft Act 1968:

England and Wales only - the legislation doesn't extend to NI or Scotland. 

[Deleted User]

Firstly, have you opened up another (non-Barclays) account and arranged all future income to be paid into it? 

[Deleted User]

Very surprised Barclays had some of the nice people when I used to hold an account with them, evidently they have gone down hill.

EssexHebridean

Please just report the comment from P****** above rather than commenting further on it. There's rarely any benefit in biting at trolling posts. 

*edited to remove username as the offensive comment and replies have now been removed. Leaving the above as it's generally a reminder of the best way to proceed if you see something on these boards that goes against the forum's ethos in how we treat others.* 

[Deleted User]

IanManc said:

Deleted User said:

eskbanker said:

JustJinny said:

Today - I have just realised how much, I have been very successfully Blackmailed... (Legal definition: "Blackmail involves a threat to do something that would cause a person to suffer embarrassment or financial loss, unless that person meets certain demands.")... by a Call Handler who works for the Collections Department at Barclays Bank PLC.

That's an extraordinarily lengthy post, the salient facts of which could probably be condensed into a fraction of that, but just to pick up on your assertion that it's blackmail, the actual legal definition in the UK is given in section 21 of the Theft Act 1968:

England and Wales only - the legislation doesn't extend to NI or Scotland. 

Northern Ireland's legislation and statutory definition is exactly the same, word for word, in the Theft Act (Northern Ireland) 1969. At the time of the passing of the 1968 Act at Westminster criminal justice in NI was devolved to the Parliament of Northern Ireland.

So the Theft Act 1968 that doesn't apply there or Scotland; like I said?!
Even the same UK wide legislation can be interpreted differently in the three separate jurisdictions.  

eskbanker

Deleted User said:

IanManc said:

Deleted User said:

eskbanker said:

JustJinny said:

Today - I have just realised how much, I have been very successfully Blackmailed... (Legal definition: "Blackmail involves a threat to do something that would cause a person to suffer embarrassment or financial loss, unless that person meets certain demands.")... by a Call Handler who works for the Collections Department at Barclays Bank PLC.

That's an extraordinarily lengthy post, the salient facts of which could probably be condensed into a fraction of that, but just to pick up on your assertion that it's blackmail, the actual legal definition in the UK is given in section 21 of the Theft Act 1968:

England and Wales only - the legislation doesn't extend to NI or Scotland. 

Northern Ireland's legislation and statutory definition is exactly the same, word for word, in the Theft Act (Northern Ireland) 1969. At the time of the passing of the 1968 Act at Westminster criminal justice in NI was devolved to the Parliament of Northern Ireland.

So the Theft Act 1968 that doesn't apply there or Scotland; like I said?!
Even the same UK wide legislation can be interpreted differently in the three separate jurisdictions.  

As my original post was arguably a bit pedantic I'm happy to accept further pedantry about the intra-UK jurisdictions, but the more important points were (a) that OP's "legal definition" wasn't recognisable as such in a UK (or more local subset) context, and (b) that labelling the conversation literally as 'blackmail' is pointless anyway, as there was clearly no crime here, so I'd humbly suggest letting this thread get back to the topic at hand....