Is there anything we can do?

GDB2222

lookstraightahead said:

GDB2222 said:

980233 said:

GDB2222 said:

If I were in your position, I would do these two things:

I would speak directly to the tenants, nicely, very nicely, and hear from them what they say their plans are. I'd take it with a pinch of salt, but at least I would have tried. These Chinese whispers games, with solicitors asking solicitors, are a waste of time. Hear it from the horse’s mouth.

I would very actively look around for a different property.  There’s no point pulling out of this one until you have found another. 

The only other thing that you can consider is threatening to pull out unless the landlord incentivises the tenants to vacate immediately. Given enough money they might well do that. Unfortunately, you probably won’t be believed.

And move out to where as they are apparently buying themselves?

Given a big enough incentive, they can move out to The Ritz. However, it’s probably possible to find something quite a bit cheaper.

Clearly, for an incentive of say £100k, they’d move out in hours (well, I would, anyway). So, it’s a question of finding the sweet spot which makes it worth their while and where everyone is happy. If that exists.

The op could move out equally as easily as the tenants and sell their house to boot.

the issue here really is that the op expects the tenants to move out to accommodate the op, yet the op won't move out to accommodate themselves even though they are the ones at risk of losing their buyers and even though the tenants don't need to move as it makes no difference.

The only issue here is that someone has told the op the tenant will move out and they havent. Otherwise it all seems to be about putting the tenants out because, well, they are tenants and can live anywhere surely ...

Incentivising the tenants, so they leave of their own free will, how is that 'putting them out'?   It's really up to the landlord whether he wants to pay them. Apparently, he doesn't. That's quite understandable, as he has buyers for the property. 

nkarma

neet87 said:

I do sympathise, it sounds like a very stressful situation. Having read this thread and thought about it, for your own sanity you need to try and stop thinking that the tenants should act how you would act in their situation.

Age is teaching me that when we expect others to behave how we would, it only leads to disappointment when they don't. I have a very rigid sense of right and wrong and hold myself to high standards of what I perceive to be the moral things to do. Other people perceive things differently and on occasion, some people have lower morals. I have been bitterly disappointed by this when younger and now try not to hold people against my own standards, if you understand by point. 

Great advise for life! I have been on a journey to get where you are over the last 5 years or so. My progress comes in spurts and sometimes regresses.

This isn't meant as criticism; however, one thing that popped out in your statement is 'some people have lower morals.'  I would change that to 'different morals' so there is no value judgement.  They may think their morals are higher and so may others while others may agree with you. 

nkarma

I hope OP completes today and comes back to update us all.

I agree with you there are a lot of people on this forum who are not helpful.  They like to lecture you and point out their opinions on your failings, and how they would never make the same decision.  I think it helps them feel better about themselves which is a bit unhealthly but not as bad as some things I know other people do to feel good so I guess is fair enough.

Don't take it personally OP - you are as good as the lot of us.

GoogleMeNow

nkarma said:

I hope OP completes today and comes back to update us all.

I agree with you there are a lot of people on this forum who are not helpful.  They like to lecture you and point out their opinions on your failings, and how they would never make the same decision.  I think it helps them feel better about themselves which is a bit unhealthly but not as bad as some things I know other people do to feel good so I guess is fair enough.

Don't take it personally OP - you are as good as the lot of us.

Rather than posters lecturing, I think a better description would be that there are posters here who have much more experience and knowledge than the OP, who is a first time buyer.  Obviously the OP is now gaining knowledge and experience through the advice given and through this property transaction, which is far more complicated than the OP believed it was when his offer on this property was accepted.

The OP has been given sound advice by many posters, much of it being the same advice the OP got from their earlier previous threads.  The 'lectures' are simply because posters have given their time, experience and knowledge to advise the OP, only to realise that it has fallen on deaf ears because the OP is still no further forward and is still asking the same questions. 

It's not a personal attack and is nothing whatsoever to do with being as good as the lot of us.  We all have different experiences and different knowledge.  Surely the idea of these boards is to ask advice when you don't know or understand something and to receive that advice from posters who do have that knowledge.  Isn't it a good thing that people willingly pass on their knowledge and experience freely?  

Jude57

nkarma said:

I hope OP completes today and comes back to update us all.

I agree with you there are a lot of people on this forum who are not helpful.  They like to lecture you and point out their opinions on your failings, and how they would never make the same decision.  I think it helps them feel better about themselves which is a bit unhealthly but not as bad as some things I know other people do to feel good so I guess is fair enough.

Don't take it personally OP - you are as good as the lot of us.

'Some people' have taken time in the OP's several other threads on this topic to repeatedly provide advice based on their own experience or on their professional knowledge, free of charge. If they are now less patient with the OP, surely that is understandable? I can't see anyone posting to make themselves feel better, just genuinely trying to help. Their posts are not just to help the OP, but to help anyone who searches for help on the subject. A post on a public forum will always attract a range of responses, not all will be what the OP wants to hear.

I'm not sure that, in one post, chiding a poster for 'value judgement' then in the next post doing exactly that to a swathe of knowledgeable posters is likely to win you many friends here.

And my final point; buying a property is a business transaction. So long as everything meets the legal requirements, morality should have no place. The tenants in this case may have higher or lower morals (whatever that means) than you or I but they DO have a lawful tenancy which, morals or no, gives them rights.

nkarma

My post earlier wasn't directed at anyone.

Just my experience but I read a lot of the posts on this forum that tend to go like this.

1. Person looking for help from others with knowledge / experience (usually they are in a state of slight + distress)
2. 50% genuinely really helpful response
3. 50% responses about how the OP should have never done whatever they did and they themselves having very little knowledge of the OP's circumstances 'would never do that.' They don't actually solve the OP's issue (i.e. for this post, they want to purchase this home the one they love.  So all the posts that say 'common we told you WE would never have done this and you need to pull out' aren't useful).  A lot of these responses are quite aggressive and sound very condescending.  When reading them I often think the responder needs to take this tone to feel good.  As I said fair enough!

There is no payment mechanism for this forum so if you 'give' your time to the OP, I think you should first state that you have some experience that would be insightlful but you will only share it if the OP listens to you and does exactly what you say.  Or if you can belittle them first. Or whatever payment you desire.  Then only proceed with the advise once you have an agreement.

getmore4less

nkarma said:

My post earlier wasn't directed at anyone.

Just my experience but I read a lot of the posts on this forum that tend to go like this.

1. Person looking for help from others with knowledge / experience (usually they are in a state of slight + distress)
2. 50% genuinely really helpful response
3. 50% responses about how the OP should have never done whatever they did and they themselves having very little knowledge of the OP's circumstances 'would never do that.' They don't actually solve the OP's issue (i.e. for this post, they want to purchase this home the one they love.  So all the posts that say 'common we told you WE would never have done this and you need to pull out' aren't useful).  A lot of these responses are quite aggressive and sound very condescending.  When reading them I often think the responder needs to take this tone to feel good.  As I said fair enough!

There is no payment mechanism for this forum so if you 'give' your time to the OP, I think you should first state that you have some experience that would be insightlful but you will only share it if the OP listens to you and does exactly what you say.  Or if you can belittle them first. Or whatever payment you desire.  Then only proceed with the advise once you have an agreement.

The primary message was in a very early posts on the first thread back at the end of August

Properties with tenants can become a problem purchase

But they already knew that as they went from chain free to waiting for the tenants to find a place to buy.

Then that got topped up by a the people the tenants are buying off are going new build another known potentially problematic move and this one had a estimated build date into next year

The rest is history,  the message has been this could take time be prepared to hang on if you want his place, those that say they would not have done it are those that don't want the potential uncertainty that tenants bring.

One common message on threads with tenants is don't spend money before the tenants are out, that was also on the first thread opening day 40mins in.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78574896/#Comment_78574896

They even acknowledged they should wait for the tenants to vacate before exchange  creating the double chain scenario with a gap or exchange complete same day(not a great options).
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78574932/#Comment_78574932


Maybe it did come together yesterday the OP moved in which would be great.

That would be relatively quick for any purchase 9/10 weeks from the OP finding the place we are not into this is dragging on too long territory yet.

If not current long date is the new build being ready or earlier if the tenants or new build buyer move into alternative accommodation.
(the OP moving to temp does not secure their onward property) 

canaldumidi

74jax said:

Deleted User said:

@getmore4less

Thats great but what’s your advice? I appreciate the level of time you have to gather up all my posts but not sure on the relevance? I do mention on this post that I’ve made a few already and attempt to summarise. 

I’ve never sold or bought at once before, so the process is new to me and so I’ve come to this forum for advice whenever we’ve encountered issues. On many occasions we’ve followed the advice we’ve received and in most cases it’s enabled us to move forward as things have been resolved. 

I think it’s a shame that some people comment on threads to be no help whatsoever with clearly no aim at all. 

I’m aware of all those posts, I wrote them, so thanks for the absolutely useless response. 

The point of showing posts, is to help other readers, so we don't give advice that has already been given in other posts. 

It's clearly in the forum guides that the moderators do not allow multiple posts asking similar things from the same person, if reported you can be banned as it is classed as spamming. 
. 

Indeed. And it seems to be becoming more common. Ironically, whilst the mods are sometimes over-enthusiastic about banning or issuing penalties for trivial or debatable 'misdemeanors', they seem to be overlooking multiple threads which can be very frustrating, not to mention time-wasting.

Forum Rules

Threads are easier to follow and read if they follow a conversation style pattern. With this in mind, please don't create duplicate posts on or across multiple threads. Flooding (repeated posting aiming to dominate or overwhelm a page) will be treated as spam.

getmore4less

Something I kind of hinted at but maybe worth spelling out

In a normal chain there are incentives for each person to move on to their new property.

Main one is they need the money from their sale to complete theirs so they pretty much have to vacate.

The completions proceed from the bottom up cash flowing up the chain over a few hours

Here we have a very different scenario with a tenant in the middle so really do have two separate chains.
(it can happen with a cash buyer in the chain as well)

The completion of the tenants purchase is totally independent of them vacating the property because they are not using any funds from that property.

You cannot do a bottom up chain as there is a break at the landlord/tenant

You have to have the tenant complete and move out, before the lower part can proceed

With the general advice don't exchange till a tenant is out tying to do this as a single chain is optimistic.