DB Pension transfer..a no brainer?

cloud_dog

Parking_Trouble said:

cloud_dog said:

Parking_Trouble said:

Diplodicus said:

Did you read the OP, cloud dog? 

OP
Approaching 60. £60k in a SIPP. £1m CETV offer. No dependents.
Seeking support that a transfer out is a 'No Brainer'

2nd post
The projected pension is roughly £24k pa
Thinks they are approaching LTA

3rd post
Previous recommendation was not to transfer for several reasons stated.
Throws up some options of what to do.
Wants control of 'their' money (but includes options not to transfer out)

Overall, lacking any clarity of needs or plans so likely to have further recommendation not to transfer out.

Meanwhile the usual tension between the polemicists comes to the surface and the thread goes off track in the absence of the OP providing the information needed to help make the right decision.

My post wasn't targeted towards the OP, as I would have referred, quoted, or tagged them.  It was just a general comment, which may not be of interest to some (I think I may have mentioned that), for the broad spectrum of people who may come across this thread and may only be focused on getting their hands on the pretty shiny stuff and just 'want their money' (sic).

Ah! My post wasn't aimed at you. It was intended to point out the lack of detail in the OP. Not much in there for @diplodicus to raise the question.

I agree with all you said and I took a similar route with my pension for pretty much the same reasons.

Np.

I don't tend to reply to dippy TBH.

grocerjack

Linton said:

grocerjack said:

Linton said:

grocerjack said:

eskbanker said:

grocerjack said:
Investment at medium risk started in July 2020 and has returned around 9% so far. That is exeptional and I know it won't return this every year

An incidental point to the thrust of the overall post, but I wouldn't describe that as exceptional - that's about 6.7% annualised growth, which isn't abnormal at all for a medium risk investment....


In terms of your initial comment about negativity to transferring, OP made an almost completely unsupported remark that it would be a no-brainer, and asked for what they might be missing, so posters have contributed factors that need to be included in the evaluation, as this board is littered with examples of posters who've been seduced by apparently huge CETVs, without being aware of how to make a realistic like-for-like comparison.

There are also many threads discussing the difficulty of obtaining an IFA recommendation or transferring against advice, which is a situation that has changed significantly since you went through the process....

Is that what they are now calling an 'insistent client' - someone who wants to transfer even if advised not to. I understand what the posters are doing, and it's fair to outline the potential pitfalls, but I do think the whole subject tends to be heavily aganst transferring out and the positives are often overlooked.

The FCA state that the default assumption should be that transfer is not recommended.  Therefore I cant see it is an appropriate role for this forum to give someone who doesnt know why they want to transfer reasons for doing so.  That they dont know is surely prima facie evidence that they should not.

In my view it is right that the whole system is heavily against transferring out.  The irreversible risk to the transferee's future is so great that the reasons for doing so should be convincing and genuine.

'Role'? The role of the forum is a balanced debate on the question. Not a one sided barrage of naysayers.My views are perfectly adequate and my transfer out secures the fund if anything happens to me and my partner, for my children. I have used reputable IFA and `transact are a very reputable fund managemengt organisation. You don't get to decide what is appropruate.

I am sorry if you see my comments as a criticism of what you chose to do. You clearly did your homework and knew exactly why you wanted to transfer and why it was appropriate for your situation. You then went through the process in the way intended, found a very good IFA who supported you and reached a satisfactory conclusion. That is great, that is what is meant to happen.

This is a very different attitude to some contributors on this topic who appear to only see £££s and regard the process as an obstacle to a DB pension owner getting their hands on £££s. I think it would be irresponsible to encourage people who do not give a well considered reason for transferring and do not show they have an understanding of what is involved in managing sums of perhaps £1M get around the intentions of the transfer process.

The FCAs approach of considering the default to be not to transfer with the onus on the db owner to prove their case seems sensible to me.

Sadly forums like this are sometimes not the best places for reasoned debate. Reasoned debate is not a contest to see who can shout the loudest or browbeat those who disagree with them into submission with personal attacks.

Then let me apologise to you for being a bit of a grump with my reply. Your response makes perfect sense. It is a minefield, but they can be traversed safely with caution and planning. I do know I'm very fortunate, even more so when you see the barriers to younger people today with pensions, housing etc. Your last two sentences are some of the best I've seen in any forum

ian16527

Diplodicus said:

The Batman of the IFA double act is currently absent.

Where is dunstonh when you need him?

Banned? according to his avatar

Worried_fool

ian16527 said:

Diplodicus said:

The Batman of the IFA double act is currently absent.

Where is dunstonh when you need him?

Banned? according to his avatar

Again? Together with Bowlhead. Anyone know if these fine posters are present on a different forum?

Albermarle

Worried_fool said:

ian16527 said:

Diplodicus said:

The Batman of the IFA double act is currently absent.

Where is dunstonh when you need him?

Banned? according to his avatar

Again? Together with Bowlhead. Anyone know if these fine posters are present on a different forum?

Or under a different name maybe .....

AlanP_2

The more "helpful" the poster the greater the risk of being cast adrift. 

C_Mababejive

Parking_Trouble said:

Thrugelmir said:

Parking_Trouble said:

Diplodicus said:

Did you read the OP, cloud dog? 

OP
Approaching 60. £60k in a SIPP. £1m CETV offer. No dependents.
Seeking support that a transfer out is a 'No Brainer'

2nd post
The projected pension is roughly £24k pa
Thinks they are approaching LTA

3rd post
Previous recommendation was not to transfer for several reasons stated.
Throws up some options of what to do.
Wants control of 'their' money (but includes options not to transfer out)

Overall, lacking any clarity of needs or plans so likely to have further recommendation not to transfer out.

Meanwhile the usual tension between the polemicists comes to the surface and the thread goes off track in the absence of the OP providing the information needed to help make the right decision.

Most importantly the OP is still working and contributing to the scheme. Also asks a similar question every year. 

Strange that the OP has presumably paid an IFA and couldn't come up with a plan or reasons why they wanted to transfer.

Still no plans, desires or needs by the look of it.

Could have made up some plans to leave work ASAP and travel the world in first class for a few years to justify the need to access a lot of money in the early years of retirement.

I'm back !

ok so first of all , i would not dream of trying to self manage an invested amount of this scale. It would eventually rest with one of the big pension providers who would invest it and generate some money for me.

It think it reasonable to expect that the capital appreciation over my lifetime would exceed that which i might benefit from a DB pension.

When i first approached an IFA i failed to understand what he NEEDED to hear in order to feel comfortable with a transfer.

I do have a simple RPI spreadsheet and i checked this very day and found that i could leave now and collect 23,600 rising with RPI.

With RPI at 3% this would mean i would be on 31,716 by the time i reach state retirement age.

I guess what i need to do now is look at projected returns and costs of an invested £1m over a future time frame.

Now it has been mentioned that some talk about DB transfers because they are bedazzled by what seems like a large amount of money or that they want "their" money which of course isnt really their money. Its DB PS seeking to offload liabilities on the cheap.

Having an IFA review and of course interacting with you girls and boys on here has inserted a moment of pause. One of the bigger issues is that the longer i work, the less DB pension ill collect in terms of monthly payments ! I'm not really ready to retire yet.

Thrugelmir

C_Mababejive said:

Parking_Trouble said:

Thrugelmir said:

Parking_Trouble said:

Diplodicus said:

Did you read the OP, cloud dog? 

OP
Approaching 60. £60k in a SIPP. £1m CETV offer. No dependents.
Seeking support that a transfer out is a 'No Brainer'

2nd post
The projected pension is roughly £24k pa
Thinks they are approaching LTA

3rd post
Previous recommendation was not to transfer for several reasons stated.
Throws up some options of what to do.
Wants control of 'their' money (but includes options not to transfer out)

Overall, lacking any clarity of needs or plans so likely to have further recommendation not to transfer out.

Meanwhile the usual tension between the polemicists comes to the surface and the thread goes off track in the absence of the OP providing the information needed to help make the right decision.

Most importantly the OP is still working and contributing to the scheme. Also asks a similar question every year. 

Strange that the OP has presumably paid an IFA and couldn't come up with a plan or reasons why they wanted to transfer.

Still no plans, desires or needs by the look of it.

Could have made up some plans to leave work ASAP and travel the world in first class for a few years to justify the need to access a lot of money in the early years of retirement.

It think it reasonable to expect that the capital appreciation over my lifetime would exceed that which i might benefit from a DB pension.

Are you are intending to invest 100% into equities? 

C_Mababejive

Thrugelmir said:

C_Mababejive said:

Parking_Trouble said:

Thrugelmir said:

Parking_Trouble said:

Diplodicus said:

Did you read the OP, cloud dog? 

OP
Approaching 60. £60k in a SIPP. £1m CETV offer. No dependents.
Seeking support that a transfer out is a 'No Brainer'

2nd post
The projected pension is roughly £24k pa
Thinks they are approaching LTA

3rd post
Previous recommendation was not to transfer for several reasons stated.
Throws up some options of what to do.
Wants control of 'their' money (but includes options not to transfer out)

Overall, lacking any clarity of needs or plans so likely to have further recommendation not to transfer out.

Meanwhile the usual tension between the polemicists comes to the surface and the thread goes off track in the absence of the OP providing the information needed to help make the right decision.

Most importantly the OP is still working and contributing to the scheme. Also asks a similar question every year. 

Strange that the OP has presumably paid an IFA and couldn't come up with a plan or reasons why they wanted to transfer.

Still no plans, desires or needs by the look of it.

Could have made up some plans to leave work ASAP and travel the world in first class for a few years to justify the need to access a lot of money in the early years of retirement.

It think it reasonable to expect that the capital appreciation over my lifetime would exceed that which i might benefit from a DB pension.

Are you are intending to invest 100% into equities? 

Thankfully those decisions wont really rest with me but will be entrusted to others for example Royal LonDON.

According to their risk profiler, im moderately cautious. Perhaps one of their GRIPs ? a 4 maybe? so mixed asset as appropriate.

Albermarle

C_Mababejive said:

Thrugelmir said:

C_Mababejive said:

Parking_Trouble said:

Thrugelmir said:

Parking_Trouble said:

Diplodicus said:

Did you read the OP, cloud dog? 

OP
Approaching 60. £60k in a SIPP. £1m CETV offer. No dependents.
Seeking support that a transfer out is a 'No Brainer'

2nd post
The projected pension is roughly £24k pa
Thinks they are approaching LTA

3rd post
Previous recommendation was not to transfer for several reasons stated.
Throws up some options of what to do.
Wants control of 'their' money (but includes options not to transfer out)

Overall, lacking any clarity of needs or plans so likely to have further recommendation not to transfer out.

Meanwhile the usual tension between the polemicists comes to the surface and the thread goes off track in the absence of the OP providing the information needed to help make the right decision.

Most importantly the OP is still working and contributing to the scheme. Also asks a similar question every year. 

Strange that the OP has presumably paid an IFA and couldn't come up with a plan or reasons why they wanted to transfer.

Still no plans, desires or needs by the look of it.

Could have made up some plans to leave work ASAP and travel the world in first class for a few years to justify the need to access a lot of money in the early years of retirement.

It think it reasonable to expect that the capital appreciation over my lifetime would exceed that which i might benefit from a DB pension.

Are you are intending to invest 100% into equities? 

Thankfully those decisions wont really rest with me but will be entrusted to others for example Royal LonDON.

According to their risk profiler, im moderately cautious. Perhaps one of their GRIPs ? a 4 maybe? so mixed asset as appropriate.

Royal London or similar, will  only manage the fund that you choose.
You have to pick the right fund  and the right pension provider . For a start Royal London normally only work through advisors and will not deal directly with the public ( maybe some exceptions if you are already a customer from the past ) 
You will have to decide the appropriate amount of income to take when the time comes, that will not run down the pension too quickly.
You will have to decide what do if markets have a prolonged downturn .
You will have to manage the income for maximum tax efficiency and any LTA issues etc etc .

Just because the investment fund you choose is managed, that is only one part of the picture. For sure no pension provider will offer any advice on these other issues - at best will be some generic info on their website.