Final rent payment

PurpleBees

I am currently renting, with a rolling periodic tenancy, on a monthly basis, in which I have to give one month's notice and the landlord has to give 2 (currently 4 due to Covid). The rental period starts on the 4th of each month.

Back in July, my landlord served me 4 months' notice, to move out on the 28th November. 

Then, in September, I told him I would move out by the 12th November at the latest. (So, he had more than one month's notice).

How much rent will I need to pay on the 4th November? My monthly rent pro-rata'd up until the 28th November? Or pro rata'd up until the 12th? (Surely not the full month..?)

Thanks in advance for any help

saajan_12

PurpleBees said:

I am currently renting, with a rolling periodic tenancy, on a monthly basis, in which I have to give one month's notice and the landlord has to give 2 (currently 4 due to Covid). The rental period starts on the 4th of each month. - is it a Contractual Periodic Tenancy (and if so, what are the terms stated in your last contract) or a Statutory Periodic Tennacy? 

Back in July, my landlord served me 4 months' notice, to move out on the 28th November. - well strictly its just notice that from 28th Nov he can go to court, not actually your move out date. 

Then, in September, I told him I would move out by the 12th November at the latest. (So, he had more than one month's notice). - told him how? Your contract will likely state how notice should be served, and depending on the CPT or SPT status, that may not actually be valid notice. In that case, it would just be if you both mutually agree to surrender on 12th, else your tenancy would continue until properly terminated. 

How much rent will I need to pay on the 4th November? My monthly rent pro-rata'd up until the 28th November? Or pro rata'd up until the 12th? (Surely not the full month..?) - legally, rental periods are not subdivisible, so you don't have an automatic right to pro rata the rent at all. The only ways to change this are
* if the contract stated you can (ie CPT, with notice being a calendar month, not a period, AND rent according to some calculation.
* if the LL subsequently agrees to an early termination (which can be on whatever date, and whatever calculation of rent you both agree. 

Thanks in advance for any help

The key is whether you're on a SPT or CPT. 
On a SPT (ie if your contract is silent on notice after the fixed term) then you have to give 1 tenancy period notice, ie 1 month, ending on the 3rd of a month. So in Sept you could have given notice terminating on 3rd Nov. However at this stage, you can only insist on a termination on 3rd Dec, and pay the full rent until then. 

On a CPT, if the contract says notice is 1 calendar month, then you might be okay terminating on 12th Nov. In general the final rent is still not subdivisible unless the contract specifies it is, but you may be able to convince a judge its unfair to terminate but keep paying rent - uncertain. 

--
The above outlines what you have a right to. You can still negotiate something different, eg a mutual early termination on X date, with £Y as your final rent, whatever you and the LL agree. Note they can refuse, but you might suggest that's the only way you can get your next place, else you'll have to stay put and wait for bailiffs. 

canaldumidi

Deregulation Act 2015 S40

40   Repayment of rent where tenancy ends before end of a period

After section 21B of the Housing Act 1988 insert—
“21CRepayment of rent where tenancy ends before end of a period

(1)A tenant under an assured shorthold tenancy of a dwelling-house in England is entitled to a repayment of rent from the landlord where—

(a)as a result of the service of a notice under section 21 the tenancy is brought to an end before the end of a period of the tenancy,

(b)the tenant has paid rent in advance for that period, and

(c)the tenant was not in occupation of the dwelling-house for one or more whole days of that period.

I've never been sure what exactly (1)(a) means, and hence whether it would apply here. As Saajan_12 says, tenancy periods are not normally subdivisible, but are they if a S21 has been served? Always?

And what is the effect of "the tenancy is brought to an end before the end of a period of the tenancy,"? By who? Does it only apply if a court brings it to an end? Or if brought to an end by a tenant?

theartfullodger

There are the rules and then there is negotiation.  

Negotiate with landlord.  The date you want to leave (or shortly after) might suit him. He obviously wants you out. You are saving him a LOT of time and legal costs by not dragging it out through the courts (as Thatcher's 1988 Housing act gives you the right to).

Nothing stopping any date.  E.g. could both agree to end tenancy 12:00 this Saturday.

canaldumidi

theartfullodger said:

Nothing stopping any date.  E.g. could both agree to end tenancy 12:00 this Saturday.

.... and pay rent pro rata accordingly. In that case, get it confirmed in writng!

roaduser3189

I am in exactly the same position as you as our is LL selling and also served S21 notice so would be interested to know the answer. 

DwightSchrute

Oh interesting.

We were served with a Section 21 back at the beginning of August and had 4 months to vacate. We've subsequently bought somewhere, exchanged a couple of weeks ago and are completing (hopefully) imminently. We've never had any direct contact with the landlord, only the letting agent, but we think they either want to sell or plaster over the cracks, literally, and then whack it back on the market at a higher rental income.

We think this because they are being very accommodating and only requiring a couple of weeks notice, TBH I think they'd be happy with a day if it meant they could get it back on the market quicker at a higher rent

As for the rent due, the agent has calculated it for us, you should be able to just ask them/landlord. I did my own calculation and it was a couple of quid out so I was fine with it. I also asked because I wanted it in writing - they had verbally said a couple of weeks was ok but I wanted confirmation. Our tenancy would have required 2 months notice otherwise.

Also OP, I think the Section 21 requirement is now back to 2 months from 1 October.

canaldumidi

DwightSchrute said:

Oh interesting.

We were served with a Section 21 back at the beginning of August and had 4 months to vacate. We've subsequently bought somewhere, exchanged a couple of weeks ago and are completing (hopefully) imminently. We've never had any direct contact with the landlord, only the letting agent, but we think they either want to sell or plaster over the cracks, literally, and then whack it back on the market at a higher rental income.

We think this because they are being very accommodating and only requiring a couple of weeks notice, TBH I think they'd be happy with a day if it meant they could get it back on the market quicker at a higher rent

As for the rent due, the agent has calculated it for us, you should be able to just ask them/landlord. I did my own calculation and it was a couple of quid out so I was fine with it. I also asked because I wanted it in writing - they had verbally said a couple of weeks was ok but I wanted confirmation. Our tenancy would have required 2 months notice otherwise.

There's a big difference between what the law says a tenant can or must do, and what a landlord is happy for his tenant to do.

The law is the 'backstop' if you will - but LLs and Ts can always, by agreement, do something different.

theartfullodger

canaldumidi said:

The law is the 'backstop' if you will - but LLs and Ts can always, by agreement, do something different.

As long as that "something different" is legal (many examples..)

DwightSchrute

canaldumidi said:

DwightSchrute said:

Oh interesting.

We were served with a Section 21 back at the beginning of August and had 4 months to vacate. We've subsequently bought somewhere, exchanged a couple of weeks ago and are completing (hopefully) imminently. We've never had any direct contact with the landlord, only the letting agent, but we think they either want to sell or plaster over the cracks, literally, and then whack it back on the market at a higher rental income.

We think this because they are being very accommodating and only requiring a couple of weeks notice, TBH I think they'd be happy with a day if it meant they could get it back on the market quicker at a higher rent

As for the rent due, the agent has calculated it for us, you should be able to just ask them/landlord. I did my own calculation and it was a couple of quid out so I was fine with it. I also asked because I wanted it in writing - they had verbally said a couple of weeks was ok but I wanted confirmation. Our tenancy would have required 2 months notice otherwise.

There's a big difference between what the law says a tenant can or must do, and what a landlord is happy for his tenant to do.

The law is the 'backstop' if you will - but LLs and Ts can always, by agreement, do something different.

Yes...... Not really sure what point you're trying to make? Think that's pretty clear from my explanation,