DWP Universal Credit Pay-Your-Debt Letter

GouldS1952

I recently received a letter to Pay-My-Debt from the Debt Centre Trafford. I thought at first it was a hoax/scam before I realised it was genuine So Why are my universal credits considered a debt I have to repay?

I have received NO explanation why I am expected to repay universal credit payments received between May 2020 and July 2021. I have NOT claimed or received any benefits since July 2021

I finished my PAYE employment on 29th Feb 2020 and started my Self Employment 3rd Mar 2020.I received a UTR registration with HMRC and have completed self assessments for both 2019-20 and 2020-21. My HMRC Self Assessment return for 2019-20 (effectively Only March) showed a Loss = -£602.08

My business is providing Beauty Treatments, and for business purposes I was using room hire at a hair Salon.

I am single living at home with my parents and had NO other income during Covid Lockdown.

I was in operation for just 17 days before the Covid Lockdown and therefore with NO other income I applied for Universal Credit and received my 1st Payment in May 2020. 

My business re-started on 27th July 2020 but further interruptions occurred with the October 'firebreak', a period of Self-Isolation in November, then the Xmas lockdown.  I received occasional calls from a UC advisor to ask what expenses I was having. Also my landlord was demanding I paid Rent during lockdown, so in October 2020 I moved premises..

Total INCOME from Self-Employment 2020-21 was therefore confined to the period July-December 2020 ONLY.

I Filed a HMRC Self Assessment return for 2020-1 which  showed an annual profit of  £1560.88 which averages out at £30 per week to live on.

I re-started business on 10th April 2021 and as my income gradually increased, the last UC payment I received was in July 2021

I believe I received a missed call from UC around mid-July 2021 that I unsuccessfully tried to reply to, but as

I no longer required benefits, received no further calls and was therefore never advised to report any income or expenditure after July.

 I then received the letter from Debt Centre on 8th Oct and rang them on 11th Oct but they would not explain why as they only issue the letters.

I then contacted DWP/UC on 11th Oct who arranged for someone to ring me but I was with a client and missed the call. I rang UC again who promised me a call by 20th Oct but have failed to receive one since.

Why is Contacting UC worse than pulling teeth, if you miss or don’t get the call they NEVER follow it up. The letter also threatens that if I don’t reply by 6th Nov they will employ a debt agency to collect the money owed !!!

 I am finding this whole process very frustrating and distressing, so can anyone advise.

Spoonie_Turtle

I confess to only having skimmed much of your message (sorry) but you may be one of the thousands of people having missed a message on the account to provide ID info, and when they don't get the response in time they are taking the liberty of basically declaring the claim fraudulent and asking for every penny back.  The legality of this is debatable, but it is what they are doing at the moment.

Can you still access your online journal? 

Did you report your self-employed income and expenses every month while you were claiming, even if they were 0?  [I just ask because it is not clear whether you understand UC is based on income as it is received and expenses as they go out, nothing to do with your self-assessment for HMRC.]

GouldS1952

Thanks for the reply.  My online journal was suspended so can no longer access it.
I was never told to report my I&E each month, just received an occasional call from a 'work coach' to ask what my approx spend and expenses were

GouldS1952

No message seen about ID either, why would they need further proof of ID when they already had all my details

Spoonie_Turtle

Because normal ID verification was suspended for claims last year, and now they are seeking confirmation.  See also https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78698651/#Comment_78698651

As for not being able to access your journal, I can't advise, hopefully someone else will be able to.  

The not reporting I&E may actually be a problem if it meant any genuine overpayments.  Do you have copies of your UC statements?  Did you report income in each of the months you did have some work?

NedS

GouldS1952 said:

I recently received a letter to Pay-My-Debt from the Debt Centre Trafford. I thought at first it was a hoax/scam before I realised it was genuine So Why are my universal credits considered a debt I have to repay?

I have received NO explanation why I am expected to repay universal credit payments received between May 2020 and July 2021. I have NOT claimed or received any benefits since July 2021

Are they asking you to repay the full amount you received between May 2020 and July 2021? If so, as mentioned this is because you will have failed to provide ID or other information to substantiate your claim so DWP treat the whole claim as null and void.

If they are asking you to repay a smaller amount, then it is likely you have received overpayments, maybe due to the way you have reported your earnings, and this money will need to be repaid.

If you can confirm which it is, people will be better able to advise you how best to move forward.

poppy12345

Did you tell them that you were self employed? You're meant to report your earnings and expenses on the last day of your assessment period each month. Then your UC entitlement will be calculated based on those earnings.

calcotti

NedS said: Are they asking you to repay the full amount you received between May 2020 and July 2021? If so, as mentioned this is because you will have failed to provide ID or other information to substantiate your claim so DWP treat the whole claim as null and void.

Although it is debatable whether DWP have any legal basis for doing this, as discussed here
https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/17067

JJC1956

Very confusing, I thought my DWP crowd in London were incompetent but your lot take the biscuit. If you had told them about the £1,560.88 they would have allowed for this in your monthly payment but as you never told them, I can only assume that they want the whole lot back, UC are not interested in averages (£30 per week) they are only interested in your monthly income and expenses, as already pointed out. Absolutely ridiculous that nobody informed you about filling in your expenses, I get at least 2 emails or messages at the end of my payment period.

I have found that asking questions on my journal is a complete and utter waste of time, I asked 6 questions of 3 coaches, none were answered, when I was asked to go in and speak to a self-employed coach, I had a 45 minute interview and I aired all of my views which the Lady agreed with, probably because she could see all of my unanswered questions on her screen.

You need to visit your Local Job Centre and ask to speak to a manager, otherwise your problem is going to get worse.

tomtom256

JJC1956 said:

Very confusing, I thought my DWP crowd in London were incompetent but your lot take the biscuit. If you had told them about the £1,560.88 they would have allowed for this in your monthly payment but as you never told them, I can only assume that they want the whole lot back, UC are not interested in averages (£30 per week) they are only interested in your monthly income and expenses, as already pointed out. Absolutely ridiculous that nobody informed you about filling in your expenses, I get at least 2 emails or messages at the end of my payment period.

I have found that asking questions on my journal is a complete and utter waste of time, I asked 6 questions of 3 coaches, none were answered, when I was asked to go in and speak to a self-employed coach, I had a 45 minute interview and I aired all of my views which the Lady agreed with, probably because she could see all of my unanswered questions on her screen.

You need to visit your Local Job Centre and ask to speak to a manager, otherwise your problem is going to get worse.

JJC1956 - The problem could be that you didn't have a work coach allocated, so would never get a response unless a case manager was manually dealing with the claim.

To the OP, did you declare you where self-employed on your claim? I don't think you did, as any payment would have been blocked until you had declared your income and expenditure on your to-do list at the end of every assessment period.

Alternatively, as other had said, it could be that they have tried to contact you to verify yout ID, the none covid way and you failed to answer their calls etc.

Only way to know would be to call the Universal Credit line and ask them the reason. There would/should have been a letter uploaded to your journal explaining the overpayment, however once the claim is closed, you can't download it. So it may be worth asking them to post this out to you.

You could also nip into your local Jobcentre and speak with the front of house team as they should be able to advise you of what has happened.

GouldS1952

I have now filed a Mandatory Reconsideration and wait to see if it is accepted.
I have probably been a little naive in my dealings with UC so thanks to everyone for their advice and comments, much appreciated