Dog attack

sheramber

elsien said:

It seems a tad extreme for both of them to have to give up work for two weeks because they couldn’t leave their dog unattended.  Why couldn’t they leave it, and why did it need both of them to take time off? And what is the reason for alternative treatments and the need for exercise facilities - is that fir them or their dog, by the way.
I’d be asking a lot more questions because even if your dog triggered the incident it wasn’t your dog who bit them and some of the extras could potentially be taking the proverbial.  On the face if it, their requests may not be entirely reasonable. 

I agree. If the dog couldn't be left I would have though it would have stayed in the vets.

Their so called expenses are a bit OTT.

bumblebee_tuna

elsien said:

It seems a tad extreme for both of them to have to give up work for two weeks because they couldn’t leave their dog unattended.  Why couldn’t they leave it, and why did it need both of them to take time off? And what is the reason for alternative treatments and the need for exercise facilities - is that for them or their dog, by the way.
I’d be asking a lot more questions because even if your dog triggered the incident it wasn’t your dog who bit them and some of the extras could potentially be taking the proverbial.  On the face of it, their requests may not be entirely reasonable. 

The loss of earnings was for one person, not the couple. I only have emails as "evidence" of their loss of earnings, I assume she is self-employed but again, have no genuine evidence of this.

The vet bills sent to me are of receipts and largely covered up invoices - of which I'm unable to see any detail of work carried out, nor invoice references, or even dog details. Am I within my rights to be asking for full copies (with address redacted) ?

They are also claiming for a "behaviour assessment and follow up confidence and training sessions" for both the dog and owners. Does this sound reasonable?

Gavin83

bumblebee_tuna said:

Why would their own insurance not cover the loss of earnings/alternative treatments etc?

Because all the rest of the claim is ridiculous.

What's the total amount they're asking for and what's the breakdown of this?

In your shoes I'd pay the vet bills, likely via the insurers but nothing more. There is no realistic reason they needed to take two weeks off work just to keep the dog company. The alternative treatments and exercises facilities seem a huge overreaction too. If this were to go to court they'd need to prove they mitigated their losses and I think they'd struggle to demonstrate that.

A slightly different situation but I do know of a case where someones dog killed a farm animal. They offered to pay, the farmer then took the pee (asking for a huge sum of money) and ultimately the person then pushed the farmer to claim on their insurance and then heard nothing more. Sometimes it pays to be realistic and not try and profit from a situation. 

elsien

bumblebee_tuna said:

elsien said:

It seems a tad extreme for both of them to have to give up work for two weeks because they couldn’t leave their dog unattended.  Why couldn’t they leave it, and why did it need both of them to take time off? And what is the reason for alternative treatments and the need for exercise facilities - is that for them or their dog, by the way.
I’d be asking a lot more questions because even if your dog triggered the incident it wasn’t your dog who bit them and some of the extras could potentially be taking the proverbial.  On the face of it, their requests may not be entirely reasonable. 

The loss of earnings was for one person, not the couple. I only have emails as "evidence" of their loss of earnings, I assume she is self-employed but again, have no genuine evidence of this.

The vet bills sent to me are of receipts and largely covered up invoices - of which I'm unable to see any detail of work carried out, nor invoice references, or even dog details. Am I within my rights to be asking for full copies (with address redacted) ?

They are also claiming for a "behaviour assessment and follow up confidence and training sessions" for both the dog and owners. Does this sound reasonable?

Nope. Not to me. 

ETA - of course you’re within your rights to see full and proper invoices. You could be paying their vets bills for the last 5 years otherwise.
The more information you give, the dodgier it sounds. 

I’d be pushing right back and kicking the loss of earnings etc into touch. Vets bills only if they can prove to your satisfaction that they relate to this incident, and that they haven’t already been paid. Otherwise they could be claiming from you and the insurance twice over. 

sheramber

 Lots of unknowns in this.

A client is entitled to an itemised invoice from the vet so ask for that. ( why would they need to redact information unless it was not appropriate)

I would also want confirmation from the vet that the dog could not be left for two weeks.

Behavioural assessment and treatment should be covered by his  insurance unless it is not vet referred and just their choice.

I have never seen 'confidence and training sessions for owners. Again i would want to know who has advised this is necessary and who   is supplying it?

What qualifications do they have to do it?

How have they arrived at the potential cost without knowing how long it will take to restore confidence?

I would want to see a formal  assessment from a qualified? person that this is necessary.

Yes, a dog can have its confidence shattered by an  attack but how long ago did this happen? If the dog could not be left for two weeks surely recovery would still be ongoing for a while before they dog would be mixing with other dogs .

Gentle introductions to quiet, friendly dogs is done at the dog's pace., starting with dogs the dog knows and is comfortable with. 
Was the dog nervous of other dogs before the attack?

There is no way to predict how many sessions that will take .  

sheramber

have you had any reply from your insurance company about being able to claim through third party cover?

Undervalued

bumblebee_tuna said:

Hiya, need some help please...

My dog has bitten another dog, and I put my hands up and have admitted liability. Steps have been taken to mitigate this issue in future.

They have contacted me to say they want me to pay for vet bills, loss of earnings due to being unable to work for two weeks (their own dog bit them during the incident, and they could not leave dog unattended), alternative treatments and exercise facilities.

They say their insurance will cover most of the vet bills, but want me to pay for everything else or claim on my own insurance. We don't have pet insurance as we have always put money away into a pot. The "everything else" runs into four figures...

Am I liable to pay for all of it? Why would their own insurance not cover the loss of earnings/alternative treatments etc? I feel like I need more advice before I just hand money over. 

Have you taken proper legal advice as to what extent (if at all) you are legally liable?

Any insurance will only cover your legal liabilities and not pay out just because you "feel" responsible for something and "want to do the right thing".

Normally also a condition of the insurance will be that you do not admit liability and take a neutral stance.

Even if you are legally responsible the injured party has a legal duty to minimise their losses as far as reasonably possible. Just because somebody is at fault doesn't mean the other party can run them up as big a bill as possible. If it went to court the most they would get is reasonable compensation which may well be less than the costs they have chosen to incur.

bumblebee_tuna

sheramber said:

have you had any reply from your insurance company about being able to claim through third party cover?

I have had some good news, my insurance have agreed to cover through personal liability. I have forwarded all correspondence and "evidence" I received to them - I'm sure they will do the thorough checks to ensure they only pay out for what is appropriate!

bumblebee_tuna

Gavin83 said:

bumblebee_tuna said:

Why would their own insurance not cover the loss of earnings/alternative treatments etc?

Because all the rest of the claim is ridiculous.

What's the total amount they're asking for and what's the breakdown of this?

In your shoes I'd pay the vet bills, likely via the insurers but nothing more. There is no realistic reason they needed to take two weeks off work just to keep the dog company. The alternative treatments and exercises facilities seem a huge overreaction too. If this were to go to court they'd need to prove they mitigated their losses and I think they'd struggle to demonstrate that.

A slightly different situation but I do know of a case where someones dog killed a farm animal. They offered to pay, the farmer then took the pee (asking for a huge sum of money) and ultimately the person then pushed the farmer to claim on their insurance and then heard nothing more. Sometimes it pays to be realistic and not try and profit from a situation. 

It does feel like they are trying to profit from the situation, I have been the responsible dog owner since the start, have spoken to the dog warden, handed all my details over, etc. The documents they provided just seemed very shady, and didn't seem too amused when I informed them that I had passed their details over to my insurance. We shall see what the outcome is!

bumblebee_tuna

sheramber said:

 Lots of unknowns in this.

A client is entitled to an itemised invoice from the vet so ask for that. ( why would they need to redact information unless it was not appropriate)

I would also want confirmation from the vet that the dog could not be left for two weeks.

Behavioural assessment and treatment should be covered by his  insurance unless it is not vet referred and just their choice.

I have never seen 'confidence and training sessions for owners. Again i would want to know who has advised this is necessary and who   is supplying it?

What qualifications do they have to do it?

How have they arrived at the potential cost without knowing how long it will take to restore confidence?

I would want to see a formal  assessment from a qualified? person that this is necessary.

Yes, a dog can have its confidence shattered by an  attack but how long ago did this happen? If the dog could not be left for two weeks surely recovery would still be ongoing for a while before they dog would be mixing with other dogs .

Gentle introductions to quiet, friendly dogs is done at the dog's pace., starting with dogs the dog knows and is comfortable with. 
Was the dog nervous of other dogs before the attack?

There is no way to predict how many sessions that will take .  

The invoices they provided were hidden, some were only receipts, which I wouldn't have accepted in the first place. And I absolutely agree with you about the confidence sessions.

The incident happened two months ago. There are two dogs, both of whom were barking at my dog in the first place which agitated her and spun off into the incident. It may have been a nervous dog in the first place, hence the barking, but I'm not a dog behaviourist so have no idea really.

I assume my insurance company will look further into these queries, or should I be raising the question with them direct?