Older CD players / newer cd pressings / Apple Music question ( Long post )

another_casualty

Howdy ! 

Might seem a strange question , but I'm a bit puzzled regarding the above 

My CD player is a nackamichi MB-10.  A 5 cd multiplayer purchased in 2001 
Most CDs have been playing as normal . 

I have been gradually uploading the CDs onto Apple Music / iTunes 

The issues ; 2 CDs in particular are not recognised on my CD player  . One of those being the latest Metallics " and justice for all " cd
remastereca year  or 2 ago .  I managed to upload it onto Apple Music but I had to go to hmv and exchange it for the vinyl version

During the week , I ordered a few Korn CDs on eBay ( music magpie useed , cheap and cheerful ) . All were fine ..except the "Follow the leader " album . Not recognised at all on CD player or Apple Music .  So, I thought it only cost me £2.49 I'll order a new copy 
Got that yesterday . Not recognised on CD player ,but it could be uploaded to Apple Music . 

There was a similar problem with a Klaus Schulze cd as well . 

So, I'm wondering ..should I get a new CD player ? It looks great , but technology hurtling forward etc
Many say CDs are on the way out . I still like a physical copy . 

The added question about Apple Music; I have my Apple TV Box Connected to my stereo and tv , but I find the sound quality of CDs better . Maybe getting a couple of Apple HomePod speakers instead may solve the issue . 

Maybe I should ditch the stereo and  CD player get a soundbar instead and catch up with technology .

Any ideas ?

Thanks in advance ..

Neil_Jones

The standard for CDs is defined by the so-called Rainbow Books format, which was first published in the 1980s.  They haven't been amended since 2000, however the CD spec for music always dates back to the original Red Book.

If the newer media you've purchased sit on the edge of this specification older devices won't always know what to do with it.  Some will play it, some will refuse to have anything to do with it.  The official spec is a CD playing time of 74 minutes.  Most devices can play up to 80, though there are always a few devices/lasers that won't.  Similar principle to music CDs you burn in a computer - this was a later addition to the Rainbow Book spec and so older devices were like what the deuce is this, I can't play this.

However its more likely that the device is beginning to fail.  As it fails to recognise more and more CDs it becomes increasingly obvious the laser is on the way out, and since CD players are so cheap they're not worth repairing, not after 20 years.

Re: Apple Music sound quality - compression is the answer.  Compression lobs away in a nutshell parts of the file that the ear can't hear.  Technically CD quality is compressed (as its digital) but it's better quality sound to begin with: https://blog.discmakers.com/2019/06/cds-just-sound-better/ might be of interest.

another_casualty

Thanks very much for this @Neil_Jones
On the subject of the metallica cd..it was totally black on the playing side . Not the usual silver . 

I was thinking of joining Apple Music but I'm holding off for now . They are beginning to release stuff on ' spatial audio ' which is supposed to sound amazing on their expensive headphones. Not enough releases on that format either just yet . 

Apple Music sounds good on headphones , but lacking abit without headphones .

I'm just going to checkout the link you attached ..

coffeehound

Neil_Jones said:

However its more likely that the device is beginning to fail.  As it fails to recognise more and more CDs it becomes increasingly obvious the laser is on the way out, and since CD players are so cheap they're not worth repairing, not after 20 years.

Very interesting post.  Is it worth giving the laser window a wipe as well?

googler

Are you loading them in some lossless format into iTunes?  If not, then the stored version will be using some form of lossy compression, and it's not surprising the CD sounds better. 

What's the playback chain for listening to the Apple/iTunes stuff? 

Since you have the Nakamichi, can we assume that you have a playback system of matching quality for playing back CD, and possibly other sources? Amp, speakers, etc.? What is "the stereo" in your case?

I really don't see how getting a couple of Apple speakers or a soundbar is your best solution if so.

googler

Spatial Audio appears to be aimed at cinematic use;

"Apple spatial audio takes 5.1, 7.1 and Dolby Atmos signals and applies directional audio filters, adjusting the frequencies that each ear hears so that sounds can be placed virtually anywhere in 3D space. Sounds will appear to be coming from in front of you, from the sides, the rear and even above. The idea is to recreate the audio experience of a cinema."

https://www.whathifi.com/advice/what-is-apple-spatial-audio

Unless the original artist wanted it to be listened to this way, I'm not sure I want to hear it this way....  sounds dreadful for heavy rock listening.

another_casualty

googler said:

Are you loading them in some lossless format into iTunes?  If not, then the stored version will be using some form of lossy compression, and it's not surprising the CD sounds better. 

What's the playback chain for listening to the Apple/iTunes stuff? 

Since you have the Nakamichi, can we assume that you have a playback system of matching quality for playing back CD, and possibly other sources? Amp, speakers, etc.? What is "the stereo" in your case?

I really don't see how getting a couple of Apple speakers or a soundbar is your best solution if so.

Thanks for this ..
When I rip CDs , I just put them into my Apple cd drive/ iMac in my musicroom/ spare bedroom .  I haven't thought of lossless 🤦 I've forgotten about that and not sure how to get it .

I have my tv ( plus Apple TV box ) ,  CD player and turntable  , connected to my stereo amp and bookshelf speakers in the living room.

Yes, I should avoid any more apple 🍏products for now . 

googler

I would suggest; use EAC (Exact Audio Copy) or similar to rip your CDs to lossless file format; FLAC is the most universally-applicable one, store these files on memory stick or other portable-type drive, and look into playing these back in your living-room system from either the Apple TV box, if it will do this, or look into streaming devices which will play back from local files. 

Specifically, what amp and speakers do you have in the living room? Have you got a free AUX or similar input on the amp for connecting a streamer?
 

another_casualty

Speakers are q acoustics 79 strand speaker wire . Amp was a Cambridge audio which died last year😿
now it’s an onkyo A- 9010  
Designed like old school amp . Lots of sockets . I can purchase a Bluetooth accessory to plug  into it . 

Yes I can connect a streamer and other things if that improves things ..

another_casualty

I have external hard drives ( usb which ordinary tv has but amp hasn’t ) 
Ive heard of Flac 
what do I need to buy for EAC/Flac?

googler

EAC is a free download. I use Windoze, but I'm sure it's available for Mac. 

There's a bit of a learning curve, but lots of free advice online.  

You put the CD in, it spits out the FLACs at the other end. No expense. 

There's all manner of streamers at all budgets out there. How much would you consider spending?

The ones I use were less than £100 each, second hand, and the resultant sound quality is easily the equal of all the CD players I've used (Audiolab, Technics, Pioneer, Marantz).