Help with UKPC fine - recently obtained SAR

PabloPurple123

Hello

Please can I have some advice help on a parking charge of mine. The parking charge was actually handed down 08/12/2015 (which is probably why they are trying their luck now!!). 

I received a Letter of Claim from DCB Legal recently, and therefore am anticipating an actual claim to come through shortly. As per this thread: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64350585/#Comment_64350585 - I emailed UKPC and requested the SAR, including all the info the post says to request. They sent me back the following: Photos of my vehicle, copy of the PCN, appeal and responses. They also noted that PDT data is not stored.

As it was so long ago I don't actually remember what happened at the time, I didn't even remember attempting to appeal it. But as you can see from the attached documents below, I explained the situation with the ticket machine, which is backed up by the images they have attached showing I left a note on my dashboard, but their response to my appeal was to send a valid pay and display ticket?!!! Even though my appeal clearly explained why there wasn't one. They also attached an image of an old pay and display ticket that must have still been in my windowscreen, though it is poor quality I can't make out the date, but it certainly wasn't the 8th December 2015. As I say, I don't remember what I done at the time given it was nearly 6 years ago, so can only assume I stupidly did not appeal further to POPLA.

1. Will this go against me if they do issue an actual claim?
2. Do I still have a chance of fighting it?
3. Do I now just wait to see if they issue a claim? And do they only have until 08th December to do so? (6 years on - is that the max they can issue a claim?)

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks

Redx

1) unlikely , but it's judge bingo , so never say never

2) yes , correct

3) correct

D_P_Dance

It is not a fine, please read rhe newbies?  Have you complained to your MP?

Asking for a six year old ticket may not go down well with a judge imo..  I suspect that, OTBOP, he would find for you.  Have you seen this?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3229165/Is-PROOF-private-parking-firms-scamming-motorists-Drivers-say-timings-photos-doctored-legally-parked-cars-issued-fines.html

Fruitcake

Have you sent a holding email to the solicitors yet? If not, and if you have yet to receive the court claim itself, then tell them that whilst you deny the debt you are seeking debt advice and require them to put the case on hold for 30 days in accordance with court pre-action protocol.

Do this today, now even.

Around day 27/28, send another SAR to UKPC asking for more information or clarification. Look up the SAR requirements. I can't remember precisely what it says, but you are permitted to request further information. The idea is to delay this and see if you can get it past the finish line in December without receiving a claim first.

PabloPurple123

@Fruitcake Yes I sent a holding email to the solicitor on the 12th October. So would you say around 8th November I should send another SAR to UKPC?
(though I am not sure what else I can ask for as the only thing they didn't provide was the PDT data as they said it is not stored - and not particularly relevant to me as I didn't claim to get a ticket as the machine was not working). Hmm I could ask for them to send all letters as they haven't provided any of the letters they have supposedly sent me apart from at the time of my appeal?

Redx

You only send one SAR , not 2 or more ! You can ask for any missing data in a follow up email to the DPO , giving 7 days to comply

Fruitcake is talking about the lawyers , not the claimant !

PabloPurple123

@Redx they did say 'send another SAR to UKPC asking for more information or clarification' - conflicting advice.

I just wanted to know if there is anything else I should do in the meantime, or just wait to see if they issue a claim before the 8th December 

Redx

PabloPurple123 said:

@Redx they did say 'send another SAR to UKPC asking for more information or clarification' - conflicting advice.

I just wanted to know if there is anything else I should do in the meantime, or just wait to see if they issue a claim before the 8th December 

It's not conflicting , it's a follow up SAR to obtain missing information , documents , pictures or PDT data , read the text , more information or clarification

Sending multiple SAR requests will either end up in a refusal or a bill !!

So it's a follow up SAR to the original SAR for missing data , with 7 days notice , not a new SAR with 30 days notice !

Nothing else you can do , except a landowner complaint , plan A in the newbies FAQ sticky thread

You are trying to string it out past deadline day , plus get a landowner cancellation , plus get all the evidence that you can !

If you haven't done all of that last sentence above , then yes , you have more to do

Fruitcake

I can't remember the exact wording, or where I read it, but do I remember reading that as Redx says, you can send a supplementary SAR to UKPC and ask for missing data, or possibly ask for clarification. You need to read up on what you are permitted to do in order to delay them issuing a court claim.

Edit. I think it was to do with this.

The right to restrict processing of data.

Right to restrict processing | ICO

What is the right to restrict processing?

Article 18 of the UK GDPR gives individuals the right to restrict the processing of their personal data in certain circumstances. This means that an individual can limit the way that an organisation uses their data. This is an alternative to requesting the erasure of their data.

Individuals have the right to restrict the processing of their personal data where they have a particular reason for wanting the restriction. This may be because they have issues with the content of the information you hold or how you have processed their data. In most cases you will not be required to restrict an individual’s personal data indefinitely, but will need to have the restriction in place for a certain period of time.

Further down the page it says this.

Although this is distinct from the right to rectification and the right to object, there are close links between those rights and the right to restrict processing:

• if an individual has challenged the accuracy of their data and asked for you to rectify it (Article 16), they also have a right to request you restrict processing while you consider their rectification request; or
• if an individual exercises their right to object under Article 21(1), they also have a right to request you restrict processing while you consider their objection request.

You need to legitimately find something wrong or missing with the data supplied, tell them to stop processing it (specifically tell them to put your case on hold), legitimately ask for more data or clarification or correct your data and supply it to you.

Bear in mind that the PPC has a right to refuse to restrict data processing on certain grounds, but their refusal must be reasonable and fall within ICO guidelines.

Again, I have read somewhere that you can make supplementary data requests if the initial data is incorrect or missing, and there are timescales for the requester and data handler to do this. 

Fruitcake

I was wrong, it was requesting more information in accordance with the Pre Action Protocol for debt claims of which I was thinking, not an SAR, although the above may be worth pursuing as a side issue. Print out the PAP (it's not very long) and highlight anything useful. I have included a few suggestions below.

PRE-ACTION PROTOCOL FOR DEBT CLAIMS Redraft spring 2015 (justice.gov.uk)

Complain to UKPC and their solicitors that they have failed to comply with Para 2.1 (a) about early exchange of information, and 2.1 (c) about avoiding running up costs.

They have waited nearly six years to bring a claim and have added on interest from day 1 when they could have brought the claim much earlier to reduce their costs and that of the alleged debt.
Complain to the SRA as well.

Around day 26 from when you told them you were seeking debt advice, ask for specific documents in accordance with Para 4.1, and point out that the PAP says in Para 4.2,

" ... the creditor should not start court proceedings less than 30 days from receipt of the completed Reply Form or 30 days from the creditor providing any documents requested by the debtor, whichever is the later."

The Section 69 of the Consumer Rights Act says,

"69 Contract terms that may have different meanings
(1) If a term in a consumer contract, or a consumer notice, could have different meanings, the meaning that is most favourable to the consumer is to prevail."

I would suggest that the average person would believe that the PAP for debt claims constitutes a consumer notice and therefore applies to a potential court claim about an invoice from a trader (PPC) to a motorist (consumer), and therefore the creditor should not commence proceedings less than 30 days from the creditor providing any documents requested by the debtor.
Specify that as you are seeking debt advice, you need these documents in order to determine what your response should be, and could not know what documents you needed until you sought debt advice.

I suggest you mention the above in your request for documents. You should ask for docs defined in the PAP, and specifically ask for proof of debt recovery documents including but not limited to, a bill from the debt collector and a receipt for payment made.
Also ask for written documents showing their workings out for interest calculations, pointing out that they must not include costs that they have not genuinely incurred, such as from a debt collection agency that offers a no win no fee arrangement.

Para 6.1 of the PAP states that if the parties cannot agree, both sides should take appropriate steps to resolve the dispute without court proceedings, and that they should consider using alternative dispute resolution (ADR)
Tell them that you are willing to use ADR in accordance with The Alternative Dispute Resolution for Consumer Disputes (Competent Authorities and Information) Regulations 2015.

Use the reply form Section 4 Box I to request additional documents. 

Whether any of this will work is anyone's business, but this near the end of the limitation period it is definitely worth a try.

Quote all relevant legislation especially the sections of the PA I have suggested.
Complain to the court if a claim is issued that breaches this PAP, and complain to the SRA as well.

Coupon-mad

What you do is respond in November (close as dammit to the end of the 30 day hold) to the solicitor (not PPC) asking them a question covered by the pre-action protocol.

Such as asking for evidence that the machines were working because the SAR has revealed there was a note in the windscreen saying the machine was not accepting coins.

Then every time the solicitor replies, slowly ask another question.

Next time in late November could be to ask for a copy of the sign, reminding them that a copy of the contract (sign) is required under the PAP...

DO NOT AT ANY POINT SIT AND WAIT FOR A CLAIM.  Reply, reply, reply (slowly) to the solicitor.