council tax up due to alleged self contained flat

CIS

Sandra2021 said:

the issue is that the council are calling the loft extension a "loft flat" and treating it as a separate dwelling whereas she maintains the extension remains  part of her home and a standard loft extension

these are the questions which she needs to  understand the answers to :-

1. has she in fact created a loft flat ? if is, presumably this is because a small kitchenette area was installed ? 

2. if she removes the kitchenette, what would be the process for getting her council tax liability reviewed after doing that ie who would she ask/ appeal to in order to get it recognised as an  extension to the original property as opposed to creation of a new flat?

3. If she chooses to do nothing, presumably she's not breaking the law or anything - she continues to pay an additional council tax?

4. If she chooses to leave it as is, what's to stop her renting it out under a tenancy agreement in future?> Would that be breaking any law?

thank you

1) For council tax purposes, most likely.
2) The VOA would have to assess it.
3) Not within council tax law, no.
4) That would depend on planning law. Nothing in council tax law to stop it.

I would be looking at the annexe discount as there'd appear to be nothing to stop it applying in this case (assuming it's England). The argument is slightly technical but still works. I use it with a lot of my clients who have similar issues.

hannahcolobus

Has your friend had this on Airbnb (or similar) at any point? 

Councils are getting quite wise to stuff like this and have various ways of finding these types of properties.

youth_leader

Someone else on the forum had a similar situation last year.  I can't remember accurately but it was something like a neighbour had reported their loft space as they said they'd seen someone cooking in there?  

pinkshoes

Sandra2021 said:

Can someone help please - friends did a loft conversion about five years ago  and had a tiny kitchenette area installed whilst work was going on plus shower toilet - all on the third floor.
They never actually got around to using it - it's been empty all that time but they delayed removing the kitchenette area after all the works had been done and it just got left in there.
The council wrote to them alleging change of use to self contained flat.
Can it be appealed? thank you

I don't understand why someone would go to the trouble of putting a kitchenette in there in the first place just to take it out when it was finished. Perhaps put a microwave in the corner but a kitchenette area???

Was someone LIVING in the attic room whilst doing the renovation??

And not only that, how on earth would the council suddenly know this? Loads of people convert their loft into an additional bedroom with ensuite. That's quite normal. But install a kitchenette area only just for when it was being converted with the intent on taking it out? Really? Something is fishy here...

I think there has to be a lot more to this story.

Sandra2021

Thanks so much for all the input here, it's much appreciated !

She thinks a disgruntled neighbour most likely reported this .

The loft work was done in 2016.

No legal protection insurance.

She admitted she was worried when  the council contacting her and basically told a fib saying the kitchenette had been installed temporarily.

She's leaning towards just leaving everything as is because it would involve expense and bother to get builders in to remove everything.

The understanding now -  based on input here  - is if she does that she will have to accept she pays 2 lots of council tax and of course there will be absolutely no question whatsoever of renting out or anything like that without getting appropriate planing permission.

Alternatively, she may remove everything at some point and take photos before and after as advised, then ask council for a review- taking on board property will be inspected. Thanks for advice about removing everything thoroughly/ carefully,

Thank you everyone for your time and care in responding - very helpful, very kind.

Sandra2021

lincroft710 said "There is a possibility that the CT band on the main house could increase when the flat is merged back " - I had thought from my own understanding that CT couldnt go up until property is sold ?

As stated above, not entirely sure yet what she will do anyway .

diggingdude

Sandra2021 said:

Thanks so much for all the input here, it's much appreciated !

She thinks a disgruntled neighbour most likely reported this .

The loft work was done in 2016.

No legal protection insurance.

She admitted she was worried when  the council contacting her and basically told a fib saying the kitchenette had been installed temporarily.

She's leaning towards just leaving everything as is because it would involve expense and bother to get builders in to remove everything.

The understanding now -  based on input here  - is if she does that she will have to accept she pays 2 lots of council tax and of course there will be absolutely no question whatsoever of renting out or anything like that without getting appropriate planing permission.

Alternatively, she may remove everything at some point and take photos before and after as advised, then ask council for a review- taking on board property will be inspected. Thanks for advice about removing everything thoroughly/ carefully,

Thank you everyone for your time and care in responding - very helpful, very kind.

Remember there will be annual council cost implications if they don't remove it. I think your friend may be planning on renting it no matter what they say

macman

pinkshoes said:

Sandra2021 said:

Can someone help please - friends did a loft conversion about five years ago  and had a tiny kitchenette area installed whilst work was going on plus shower toilet - all on the third floor.
They never actually got around to using it - it's been empty all that time but they delayed removing the kitchenette area after all the works had been done and it just got left in there.
The council wrote to them alleging change of use to self contained flat.
Can it be appealed? thank you

I don't understand why someone would go to the trouble of putting a kitchenette in there in the first place just to take it out when it was finished. Perhaps put a microwave in the corner but a kitchenette area???

Was someone LIVING in the attic room whilst doing the renovation??

And not only that, how on earth would the council suddenly know this? Loads of people convert their loft into an additional bedroom with ensuite. That's quite normal. But install a kitchenette area only just for when it was being converted with the intent on taking it out? Really? Something is fishy here...

I think there has to be a lot more to this story.

Because the plumbing and electrical work needs to be done, and is more cheaply done, at the point of construction. Removing it back to surface level is trivial, a day's work. Installing it from scratch after the conversion is completed is much more difficult. So, if there's any possibility that a kitchenette is required long term, it makes sense to do it along with the loft conversion. or, at the very least, to run the supplies and waste in.

wilfred30

I'd still be interested to know why they put a kitchenette up there in the first place but I think that a truthful answer to that is unlikely to be forthcoming 

CIS

Sandra2021 said:

Alternatively, she may remove everything at some point and take photos before and after as advised, then ask council for a review- taking on board property will be inspected. Thanks for advice about removing everything thoroughly/ carefully,

It has nothing to do with the council. Banding is entirely the preserve of the Valuation Office Agency/Scottish Assessors.