Section 75 - Barclaycard

born_again

steve_hemp said:

Hi guys, I was wondering if anybody has had any luck with claiming a Section 75 refund from Barclaycard as so far I have had no luck! I purchased an electric scooter over a year ago online using my barclaycard.  The scooter that was delivered was a completely different model to that advertised with many of the advertised features missing (eg no rear brake light).  I had no luck with the retailer they (just insisted that they were cosmetic changes) and refused a refund.  The retailer did not send an order confirmation or any paperwork such as an invoice with the goods.  Barclaycard have been given all the information including photos of all the differences but have refused the section75 because I cannot give them an invoice!  This has been going for over a year now and I have referred it to the ombudsman but they have a huge backlog so might not be dealing with the case for several months.
Can Barclaycard legitimately refuse a Section75 due to lack of an invoice?

In that case a chargeback should have been actioned for "Not as Described" As you had the proof. Unless you were out of time (120 days from goods arriving) before contacting Barclaycard.

Manxman_in_exile

Sandtree said:

steve_hemp said:

Some of these answers seem to be implying that an online retailer can sent out whatever they like irrespective of what was ordered.  All they need to do is omit any paperwork and a s75 can not be lodged.

A S75 is paid out of the pocket of the bank themselves... it makes no difference to the retailer if its difficult or easy for you to make a S75 claim against your bank.

Though as per the other thread on this page about S75, its a little surprising it has gone down the S75 route rather than chargeback.

But without knowing exactly what Barclaycard told the OP, you don't know it has gone down the s75 route or not.  All we know is that the OP made a s75 claim but we don't know if Barclaycard treated it as one rather than as a chargeback.  Yes - it might be that Barclaycard have specifically told the OP that they cannot process a s75 claim, or it might simply be that the OP has understandably interpreted Barclaycard saying they cannot process a refund or chargeback as referring to s75 because that is what he asked them to do.

Not that it makes any difference here if the OP can't demonstrate the discrepancy between what was ordered and what was delivered - although if the retailer has sent an email admitting the differences [Edit below] I don't see why that wouldn't suffice to support a claim?  Unless the admitted differences are insignificant?

[Edit:  Whoops!.  Not an email but the OP says "They also have details of what the retailer said with regards to the differences" which I have taken to mean that the retailer has acknowledged at least some differences - but I may well be mistaken]

Manxman_in_exile

born_again said:

steve_hemp said:

Hi guys, I was wondering if anybody has had any luck with claiming a Section 75 refund from Barclaycard as so far I have had no luck! I purchased an electric scooter over a year ago online using my barclaycard.  The scooter that was delivered was a completely different model to that advertised with many of the advertised features missing (eg no rear brake light).  I had no luck with the retailer they (just insisted that they were cosmetic changes) and refused a refund.  The retailer did not send an order confirmation or any paperwork such as an invoice with the goods.  Barclaycard have been given all the information including photos of all the differences but have refused the section75 because I cannot give them an invoice!  This has been going for over a year now and I have referred it to the ombudsman but they have a huge backlog so might not be dealing with the case for several months.
Can Barclaycard legitimately refuse a Section75 due to lack of an invoice?

In that case a chargeback should have been actioned for "Not as Described" As you had the proof. Unless you were out of time (120 days from goods arriving) before contacting Barclaycard.

As above, we don't know it isn't a chargeback.  In the other thread the OP thought he was wrestling with a s75 claim until somebody pointed out it must have been a chargeback and not s75.

Serious question, if the photos and other info supplied by the OP would be enough to support a chargeback with Barclaycard, is there any reason why those same photos and that same info wouldn't support a s75 claim as well?  (Which is really what the OP is asking).

macman

Do you not have proof of payment from your credit card statement that the payment was made to the supplying company? That would normally be sufficient to prove the purchase.

Tokmon

steve_hemp said:

Hi guys, I was wondering if anybody has had any luck with claiming a Section 75 refund from Barclaycard as so far I have had no luck! I purchased an electric scooter over a year ago online using my barclaycard.  The scooter that was delivered was a completely different model to that advertised with many of the advertised features missing (eg no rear brake light).  I had no luck with the retailer they (just insisted that they were cosmetic changes) and refused a refund.  The retailer did not send an order confirmation or any paperwork such as an invoice with the goods.  Barclaycard have been given all the information including photos of all the differences but have refused the section75 because I cannot give them an invoice!  This has been going for over a year now and I have referred it to the ombudsman but they have a huge backlog so might not be dealing with the case for several months.
Can Barclaycard legitimately refuse a Section75 due to lack of an invoice?

So they refused you returning it at all considering that within 14 days of purchasing you could have returned it for any reason?

Manxman_in_exile

macman said:

Do you not have proof of payment from your credit card statement that the payment was made to the supplying company? That would normally be sufficient to prove the purchase.

I don't think Barclaycard are necessarily denying the purchase.  They might want to see an invoice* or an order or some other paperwork so they can compare what the OP ordered against what was delivered to him.  But it seems the OP has no proof at all of what he ordered or what he thought he was buying.  (Unless the retailer has already acknowledged the discrepancy but I'm unclear about what the OP is saying about that.).

I suspect that there may be some confusion if Barclaycard have simply said "You must produce an invoice or we won't refund you" without explaining why they need it.  It might be that whatever evidence requirements they want to fulfill could be satisfied by something other than an invoice if they explained to the OP why they need it.  (Of course they may have explained to the OP but the OP hasn't told us)


*its_coming_Rome said earler that there are quite a few FOS decisions where s75 claims have not been accepted because of lack of an invoice. 

Manxman_in_exile

Tokmon said:

steve_hemp said:

Hi guys, I was wondering if anybody has had any luck with claiming a Section 75 refund from Barclaycard as so far I have had no luck! I purchased an electric scooter over a year ago online using my barclaycard.  The scooter that was delivered was a completely different model to that advertised with many of the advertised features missing (eg no rear brake light).  I had no luck with the retailer they (just insisted that they were cosmetic changes) and refused a refund.  The retailer did not send an order confirmation or any paperwork such as an invoice with the goods.  Barclaycard have been given all the information including photos of all the differences but have refused the section75 because I cannot give them an invoice!  This has been going for over a year now and I have referred it to the ombudsman but they have a huge backlog so might not be dealing with the case for several months.
Can Barclaycard legitimately refuse a Section75 due to lack of an invoice?

So they refused you returning it at all considering that within 14 days of purchasing you could have returned it for any reason?

I was going to suggest it may have been outside 14 days, but then it finally dawned on me that the OP must have bought an e-Scooter rather than some sort of mobility scooter.  Haven't there been several threads demonstrating that some sellers of e-Scooters don't understand consumer law?  Or think it doesn't apply to them... 

born_again

Manxman_in_exile said:

born_again said:Serious question, if the photos and other info supplied by the OP would be enough to support a chargeback with Barclaycard, is there any reason why those same photos and that same info wouldn't support a s75 claim as well?  (Which is really what the OP is asking).

A chargeback is card regulations & information they require can be less.

As you can understand where Barclaycard are paying out. They want proof that the photo's are of exactly what the OP ordered. Hence the need for the invoice (or order details) of exactly they purchased.
When purchasing there must have been a page confirming what was ordered. As it seems very odd that a retailer would take any order without giving some sort of proof of what was ordered.

Sandtree

Manxman_in_exile said:

born_again said:

steve_hemp said:

Hi guys, I was wondering if anybody has had any luck with claiming a Section 75 refund from Barclaycard as so far I have had no luck! I purchased an electric scooter over a year ago online using my barclaycard.  The scooter that was delivered was a completely different model to that advertised with many of the advertised features missing (eg no rear brake light).  I had no luck with the retailer they (just insisted that they were cosmetic changes) and refused a refund.  The retailer did not send an order confirmation or any paperwork such as an invoice with the goods.  Barclaycard have been given all the information including photos of all the differences but have refused the section75 because I cannot give them an invoice!  This has been going for over a year now and I have referred it to the ombudsman but they have a huge backlog so might not be dealing with the case for several months.
Can Barclaycard legitimately refuse a Section75 due to lack of an invoice?

In that case a chargeback should have been actioned for "Not as Described" As you had the proof. Unless you were out of time (120 days from goods arriving) before contacting Barclaycard.

As above, we don't know it isn't a chargeback.  In the other thread the OP thought he was wrestling with a s75 claim until somebody pointed out it must have been a chargeback and not s75.

Serious question, if the photos and other info supplied by the OP would be enough to support a chargeback with Barclaycard, is there any reason why those same photos and that same info wouldn't support a s75 claim as well?  (Which is really what the OP is asking).

Lets spin the question.... if someone was asking you to give £300 of Bob's money to Bill how much evidence would you want in comparison to if Bill was asking you to give them £300 of your own money because of something Bob has done?

Level of proof required for S75 claims is generally significantly higher and the bank will often ask for the things the retailer would be entitled to (eg independent expert report). The two chargebacks I have done with Barclays they asked for no proof at all, for one of the two AmEx cases they just asked me to forward 1 email (the other they said they'd reimburse as gesture of goodwill as was under £20 so not worth their effort)

As has been pointed out on the other thread, that adds to the above, S75 is "the end of it" so the bank wants to make sure its right (plus its its own money) whereas the merchant has other avenues open to resolve the matter following a chargeback so banks can be more liberal (and if you look at many small business forums they advise company owners to not waste time engaging in chargeback arguments because banks are too customer leaning and instead let the money go and deal with the debt recovery against the customer instead)

Manxman_in_exile

born_again said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

born_again said:Serious question, if the photos and other info supplied by the OP would be enough to support a chargeback with Barclaycard, is there any reason why those same photos and that same info wouldn't support a s75 claim as well?  (Which is really what the OP is asking).

A chargeback is card regulations & information they require can be less.

As you can understand where Barclaycard are paying out. They want proof that the photo's are of exactly what the OP ordered. Hence the need for the invoice (or order details) of exactly they purchased.
When purchasing there must have been a page confirming what was ordered. As it seems very odd that a retailer would take any order without giving some sort of proof of what was ordered.

All understood and yes - that is part of the OP's story I find difficult to accept - no paperwork at all apparently.