Abersoch Golf Club - ParkingEye - PCN issued, rejected appeal, next steps

romeobravo

Hi all.

I'll do my best to keep my first post factual and easy to follow, so bear with me!

This relates to a PCN issued by ParkingEye for overstaying on Abersoch Golf Club in September.

The PCN was delivered to the registered keeper's address 9 days after the "offence". From looking at the FAQ's, it was the ordinary (not 'Golden ticket') PCN. It's the amount of £100, reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days.

The registered keeper whom the PCN was sent to was not the driver of the vehicle at the time of the supposed offence.

Parking was purchased, but departure from the "car park" was almost 40 minutes outside of the alleged paid time according to ParkingEye, with their photographic evidence.

So, this leads us to the first step: The registered keeper rejected via ParkingEye to state 'person was not the driver at time of offence' (or whatever the exact terminology was on their dropdown boxes at rejection time), with the following (from the templates), submitted on the same day the PCN was received (9 days after offence):

-----
Re PCN number: xxxx

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.
-----


Then, 22 days later, the registered keeper received an email with the following text from ParkingEye:


-----
Dear Sir / Madam,

Thank you for your correspondence in relation to the Parking Charge incurred on (time/date), at Abersoch Golf Club - Beach car park.

We are writing to advise you that your recent appeal has been referred for further information.

You have stated that you were not the driver of the vehicle at the date and time of the breach of the terms and conditions of the car park, but you have not indicated who was.

You have already been notified that under section 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full. As we do not know the driver’s name or current postal address, if you were not the driver at the time, you should tell us the full name and the current postal address of the driver.

You are warned that if, after 29 days from the Date of Issue, the parking charge has not been paid in full and we do not know both the name and current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you, the registered keeper. This warning is given to you under paragraph 9(2)(f) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to our complying with the applicable conditions under schedule 4 of that Act.

Please note, if you have made or wish to make an appeal on behalf of the driver, and you do not provide the full name and current postal address of the driver, ParkingEye will be obliged to deal with the representations made in your name.

ParkingEye have placed this charge on hold for 28 days to enable you to provide the evidence requested. If this information is not provided within 28 days, the appeal may well be rejected and a POPLA code provided. Alternatively, payment can be made by telephoning our offices on 0330 555 4444 or by visiting www.parkingeye.co.uk or by posting a cheque or postal order to ParkingEye Ltd, PO Box 117, Blyth, NE24 9EJ.
-----

So, leads me to the following questions/scenarios:

1) Without further action at the moment from the registered keeper, would it be best to completely ignore and wait for a POPLA code?

2) We are told there are circumstances which can explain the overstaying relating to a very poorly child, but also problems with the car park itself (signage, physical car park ground being loose stones rather than traditional tarmac/marked bays so not actually knowing where to park within the grounds). At POPLA appeal stage, would these be worth disclosing straight away for the best chance at POPLA appeal stage?

Thanks in advance, all comments/feedback welcomed, which will be relayed.

D_P_Dance

You mst appeal to the PPC tp obtain a Popla code, Please read the newbis, read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading/p1

and complain to your MP.  ,

romeobravo

D_P_Dance said:

You mst appeal to the PPC tp obtain a Popla code, Please read the newbis, read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading/p1

and complain to your MP.  ,

I have read that, thanks, it’s just it says on their email that without further action from the registered keeper the appeal may be rejected, and a POPLA code may be issued. Which I interpret as no further appeal to ParkingEye required as they’ll issue a POPLA anyway. 

Obviously first appeal was sent by registered keeper, then this email was received. 

So are you saying to appeal something *now* to the PPC? Appeal on what grounds - not the driver again? Or on the basis of the comments that were going to be submitted to POPLA?

thanks

D_P_Dance

No if you have appealed to the PPC wait for their decision.

Le_Kirk

Since you have already appealed to ParkingEye and been rejected, they should send you a POPLA code after 28 days.  Do not tell them the driver's name; there is no law that compels you to do this!  Advice on POPLA appeals can be found in the NEWBIE sticky third post. 
Look through (or search for) other posts concerning this golf club; I am sure there was one in the last week or so.

romeobravo

D_P_Dance said:

No if you have appealed to the PPC wait for their decision.

See the first post - only appealed based on not the driver of the vehicle. So registered keeper has understood their latest email (see last paragraph underlined above) to mean “do nothing, and you’ll get a POPLA code”.

thanks

romeobravo

Le_Kirk said:

Since you have already appealed to ParkingEye and been rejected, they should send you a POPLA code after 28 days.  Do not tell them the driver's name; there is no law that compels you to do this!  Advice on POPLA appeals can be found in the NEWBIE sticky third post. 
Look through (or search for) other posts concerning this golf club; I am sure there was one in the last week or so.

Thanks, have done, read a few about this place. One did not show an outcome or further information however.

Coupon-mad

At POPLA appeal stage, would these be worth disclosing straight away for the best chance at POPLA appeal stage?

No, POPLA do not consider mitigating circs.  At all.  You will lose.

You would be better telling the Golf Club and P/Eye about the mitigation and asking if they would accept an offer, say £30.  They won't, but might negotiate if Abersoch Golf Club get involved.

You can't win this at POPLA and I struggle to see a defence for court here.  You could have topped up the parking fee presumably, and 40 minutes is a long time over.

Redx

I agree with the above , no way to win an appeal and unlikely to win in court

Mitigation won't enter into it , or will be rejected if tried , a loser imho

The law named POFA makes the keeper liable unless the driver is named

Hiding behind the argument of " I was not the driver" is irrelevant , either the driver is named ( and they will lose ) , or the keeper liability is invoked and the keeper will lose

Negotiation to a lower figure to suit all parties is best , or name the driver and let them deal with it , preferably negotiating a suitable offer and paying it

It's a pay and display car park , insufficient time was paid for , so a slam dunk for PE for the reasons set out above and in the reply by coupon mad above

Pick your battles , this one is a loser and was from the start , because no attempt was tried to pay retrospectively

D_P_Dance

IMO the only way you can beat this is to concentrate on the poor signage.  I have given you the link. above.  Gven that you have few options it may be worth a try.  Read also this.decision which was overturned at appeal.  

A judge earlier this year made these comments

"This signage contains a huge amount of wording, in varying fonts. There are

between 650 ta 700 words, by my rough count. it's well known that the average
reading speed of most adults is aground 200 to 250 words per minute. On the basis
however that this is reading a sign and there are many technical words, it would
probably take an average reader about 3 to 4 minutes to read everything on the
sign. The key part however is found be found some 140 words into the text. It is in the
middle of the sign and it says this, in capitals, then below it is a lower sized font
referring to the £100:"   DJ Harvey