no end to tupe?

oh_really

Sandtree said:

 Continuity of service

No, it protects indefinitely, if they want to make you redundant they have to consider your date of joining as when your joined the original company not from the date of purchase etc... in plenty of other countries with lesser protections there is normally a large cull of shared services types because the merged companies dont need double the number of HR or Finance people etc.

TUPE exists only at the point of transfer.

Sandtree

oh_really said:

Sandtree said:

 Continuity of service

No, it protects indefinitely, if they want to make you redundant they have to consider your date of joining as when your joined the original company not from the date of purchase etc... in plenty of other countries with lesser protections there is normally a large cull of shared services types because the merged companies dont need double the number of HR or Finance people etc.

TUPE exists only at the point of transfer.

So at what point does date of service change to the date of purchase @oh_really?

getmore4less

Sandtree said:

getmore4less said:

TUPE only really protects at the point of transfer.

The employer can start making changes immediately with some relatively minor restrictions but they also don't have to make any changes at all like they don't with any other employees.

No, it protects indefinitely, if they want to make you redundant they have to consider your date of joining as when your joined the original company not from the date of purchase etc... in plenty of other countries with lesser protections there is normally a large cull of shared services types because the merged companies dont need double the number of HR or Finance people etc.

Service is protected at the point of transfer.
That's the point your equivalent start date is set.


After the transfer normal employment law protects service 

Jillanddy

Sandtree said:

oh_really said:

Sandtree said:

 Continuity of service

No, it protects indefinitely, if they want to make you redundant they have to consider your date of joining as when your joined the original company not from the date of purchase etc... in plenty of other countries with lesser protections there is normally a large cull of shared services types because the merged companies dont need double the number of HR or Finance people etc.

TUPE exists only at the point of transfer.

So at what point does date of service change to the date of purchase @oh_really?

You are not understanding what TUPE is. Continuity of service is always "protected", but that exists in any circumstances including those that are not TUPE protected. TUPE is really about the terms of service,  not the length of it.  The terms at the date of transfer are protected, and on a technical basis they cannot be changed, so that "protection" lasts for ever.  In reality though,  they can be changed immediately if the employer can establish an economic,  technical or organisational reason that they must do so. It's a stupid employer who can't think one of those up.  And over time the ability to resist such a change in law "wears down". A tribunal is less likely to support a claim to maintain original terms after 18 months than it is to do so after 18 days.  

The protection really exists to prevent employers from unilaterally reducing terms of service,  but as the OP has found out,  it works both ways. There is no real incentive for an employer who had someone on worse terms to improve them. 

Sandtree

Jillanddy said:

Sandtree said:

oh_really said:

Sandtree said:

 Continuity of service

No, it protects indefinitely, if they want to make you redundant they have to consider your date of joining as when your joined the original company not from the date of purchase etc... in plenty of other countries with lesser protections there is normally a large cull of shared services types because the merged companies dont need double the number of HR or Finance people etc.

TUPE exists only at the point of transfer.

So at what point does date of service change to the date of purchase @oh_really?

You are not understanding what TUPE is. Continuity of service is always "protected", but that exists in any circumstances including those that are not TUPE protected. TUPE is really about the terms of service,  not the length of it.  The terms at the date of transfer are protected, and on a technical basis they cannot be changed, so that "protection" lasts for ever.  In reality though,  they can be changed immediately if the employer can establish an economic,  technical or organisational reason that they must do so. It's a stupid employer who can't think one of those up.  And over time the ability to resist such a change in law "wears down". A tribunal is less likely to support a claim to maintain original terms after 18 months than it is to do so after 18 days.  

The protection really exists to prevent employers from unilaterally reducing terms of service,  but as the OP has found out,  it works both ways. There is no real incentive for an employer who had someone on worse terms to improve them. 

But continuity of service is a key feature of TUPE else all acquired employees have suddenly been with their new employer for less than 24 hours on the day of sale and can be dismissed without reason for the next two years were it not for TUPE protecting their start date... 

Having worked in countries without such protections the acquiring company very quickly finds it doesnt need double the HR, Finance etc people and its of no surprise that virtually all those that go are the newly acquired employees for which no severance is due. 

Even outside of TUPE I've seen many large corporations with many different versions of contracts in play even with occasional attempts to harmonise 

Jillanddy

Sandtree said:

Jillanddy said:

Sandtree said:

oh_really said:

Sandtree said:

 Continuity of service

No, it protects indefinitely, if they want to make you redundant they have to consider your date of joining as when your joined the original company not from the date of purchase etc... in plenty of other countries with lesser protections there is normally a large cull of shared services types because the merged companies dont need double the number of HR or Finance people etc.

TUPE exists only at the point of transfer.

So at what point does date of service change to the date of purchase @oh_really?

You are not understanding what TUPE is. Continuity of service is always "protected", but that exists in any circumstances including those that are not TUPE protected. TUPE is really about the terms of service,  not the length of it.  The terms at the date of transfer are protected, and on a technical basis they cannot be changed, so that "protection" lasts for ever.  In reality though,  they can be changed immediately if the employer can establish an economic,  technical or organisational reason that they must do so. It's a stupid employer who can't think one of those up.  And over time the ability to resist such a change in law "wears down". A tribunal is less likely to support a claim to maintain original terms after 18 months than it is to do so after 18 days.  

The protection really exists to prevent employers from unilaterally reducing terms of service,  but as the OP has found out,  it works both ways. There is no real incentive for an employer who had someone on worse terms to improve them. 

But continuity of service is a key feature of TUPE else all acquired employees have suddenly been with their new employer for less than 24 hours on the day of sale and can be dismissed without reason for the next two years were it not for TUPE protecting their start date... 

Having worked in countries without such protections the acquiring company very quickly finds it doesnt need double the HR, Finance etc people and its of no surprise that virtually all those that go are the newly acquired employees for which no severance is due. 

Even outside of TUPE I've seen many large corporations with many different versions of contracts in play even with occasional attempts to harmonise 

That may all be true.  But it isn't relevant. What happens in other countries isn't applicable here. There are,  as I said previously,  other ways in which continuity of service is maintained even where TUPE is not a factor.  And continuity of service is not the issue here.  

The question here is about the terms and conditions of employment. Previous posters are correct - those terms are protected at the point of transfer,  but they may thereafter be subject to change.  There are conditions about why they might be changed,  but that is all.