Fixings for Heavy Column Radiators

paperclap

Hi all,

I had already posted something similar to this post, but didn't get much response. Thank you to those who did reply! 

Would just like some additional input.

I'm replacing all our single panel rads with 3 column radiators.

The rads are as follows:

Vertical, 2000mm by 490mm, 30kg
Horizontal, 1050mm by 500mm, 27kg
Horizontal, 850mm by 500mm, 21kg
Horizontal, 650mm by 500mm, 16kg

These weights are without water. Not sure what the volume is on these.

The rads are supplied with brackets, but no fixings.

Our internal walls are either brick, or maybe aerated blocks. I'm not 100% sure. I've seen a lot of information online about fixings for dot and dab walls. But, not solid walls.

Any suggestions on suitable, solid fixings?

Thanks!

Bendy_House

These are heavy, right enough, but probably not any more so than standard DP rads.

When I fitted tall column rads in our extension, I had to take into account the depth of p'board as it was D&Ded into place.

The wall behind this was concrete block, so I knew I'd have good purchase into that at least (the rest of the internal skin was 'breeze' block, but thankfully I was able to position the rads on the two columns which held the central steel - made for the job!)

I checked the fixing slot size on the supplied brackets, and figured that 6mm bolts (I think it was) would be the largest that would easily fit. I then bought coach screws and wall plugs of that size, choosing the bolt length to allow a strong fix in the concrete blocks. I also used washers with these as this helps to grip the brackets and spreads the load.

SDS drill (don't try and use just 'hammer'!), and you should be fine in brick too.

If it's aerated block - 'breeze' -  then you may need to go a different route, as this stuff is soft. Find out for sure with a test drill, and if it is, then you may need to go threaded bolts in resin, or at least go deeper. Others might recommend fittings suitable for 'breeze'.

paperclap

Bendy_House said:

I checked the fixing slot size on the supplied brackets, and figured that 6mm bolts (I think it was) would be the largest that would easily fit. I then bought coach screws and wall plugs of that size, choosing the bolt length to allow a strong fix in the concrete blocks. I also used washers with these as this helps to grip the brackets and spreads the load.

I've noticed a fair few people suggest coach screws for heavy rads. But, why?

Aren't coach screws used for heavy timber construction? Or, is that the reason they're used for hanging rads – because they're just so strong? 

Bendy_House

Coach screws into plastic wall plugs.

Yes, they're strong and with a deep coarse thread. And with bolt-type heads on them, they are easy to tighten with no risk of mangling as you'd get with a screwdriver-fitting.

First, tho', figure out what your inner wall skin is made of...

paperclap

Bendy_House said:

Coach screws into plastic wall plugs.

Yes, they're strong and with a deep coarse thread. And with bolt-type heads on them, they are easy to tighten with no risk of mangling as you'd get with a screwdriver-fitting.

First, tho', figure out what your inner wall skin is made of...

Just measured the diameter of the bracket holes, and its 9mm. So, think I'll have to go with 8mm screws and 8mm wall plugs.

Thinking these 8mm by 60mm wall plugs:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/friulsider-x1-evo-high-performance-nylon-plugs-8-x-60mm-100-pack/310jy

Then, some suitable 8mm by 70mm screws.

I'm almost certain the internal walls aren't brick. Either concrete or aerated block. Contacted my electrician just now, to see if he remembers (when he chased our walls out) 

Another_Level

As what bendy mentioned, coach screws and wall plugs in masonry

There are many different ways to attach heavy loads to masonry walls, suggestions will vary. But.

Drill a neat hole it makes life easier, sometimes its necessary to drill a 5mm hole and then gently enlarge the hole with a 8mm or similar drill bit.

Some Turkish manufactured radiators sold in uk come with a substantial coach screws&plugs. Its how they fit radiators in europe. : Cheers Nigel 

Either use Fisher radiator fixings (kit) or brown fisher rawlplugs with number 10 round head stainless screws and washers if required.

  

paperclap

Fischer do do a set, as you say. Convenient, but simply looks like a set of standard plugs with coach screws. Doesn't state diameter of plugs / screws. Doesn't state whether the 50mm is the screw or plug length. Doesn't state the maximum load per fitting, or maximum load for all together.

https://www.toolstation.com/fischer-radiator-fixing-set/p51305?store=RN&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googleshoppingfeed&mkwid=s_dc&pcrid=513183106262&pkw=&pmt=&gclid=CjwKCAjwzaSLBhBJEiwAJSRokivbauVi78Po6AULFybKUYh9bMMyDss2Hs0zOSzk3wIl45WO2sZypRoCnZUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

For peace of mind, I think I'd want something a little burlier than the above 

Another_Level

laurencewhymark said:

Fischer do do a set, as you say. Convenient, but simply looks like a set of standard plugs with coach screws. Doesn't state diameter of plugs / screws. Doesn't state whether the 50mm is the screw or plug length. Doesn't state the maximum load per fitting, or maximum load for all together.

https://www.toolstation.com/fischer-radiator-fixing-set/p51305?store=RN&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googleshoppingfeed&mkwid=s_dc&pcrid=513183106262&pkw=&pmt=&gclid=CjwKCAjwzaSLBhBJEiwAJSRokivbauVi78Po6AULFybKUYh9bMMyDss2Hs0zOSzk3wIl45WO2sZypRoCnZUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

For peace of mind, I think I'd want something a little burlier than the above 

Yes that selling blurb is pants, ts are still wearing short pants in the professional world.  Have previously used that fisher product (Came with a data sheet)  when it was necessary to list every item which was being installed for council house work compliance etc.
In practice one of those fisher fixings will hold up your heavy item 
Yes they work but your walls need to be suitable the general idea is to use a product that will retain them large lumps of hot water filled metal on your wall even if children try to climb them etc. 

Could use longer coach screws with fisher brown wall plugs, if you only have 4 fixing points use them well. The general idea is avoid aluminum double rough threaded carpentry screws in plastic wall plugs for load bearing installations.

Happy plumbing 

Bendy_House

Things you need to know...

1) What's the inner skin made from

2) How thick is the plaster/plasterboard layer before you even get to the inner skin?

3) Max size of bolt to use (you have this - and I'd go 8mm too, although 6mm with washers is fine (plenty strong enough, and will allow an extra bit of wriggle room).

4) That bracket in your hand - that'll need two fixings. And, yes, they need to be reasonably accurate.

Point (1) is the starting point   Everything else follows from that...

tacpot12

I used these Fischer plugs plus some 10x70mm stainless coach screws to find brackets to hold a sets of stairs up. They have been in for six years or so and not moved. 

Fischer SX Nylon Plugs 10 x 50mm 50 Pack | Wall Plugs | Screwfix.com

You should make sure you have a good drill if you are going to be drilling larger holes in solid masonry. I've got one of these and it makes short work of most jobs: Bosch GBH 2-21 2.3kg Electric Corded SDS Hammer 240V | SDS Drills | Screwfix.com 

Bendy_House

Yes, do not entertain drilling into anything harder than 'breeze' using a normal 'hammer' drill. You will cry.

Even SF's cheapest SDS drill - the Titan - will show you a new level of drilling power. It's not even that they drill into concrete easily, but do so straight and direct - that's very important.

Yes, it's a heavy bar steward, but it does the job.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb278sds-6-3kg-electric-sds-plus-drill-9-piece-accessory-kit-230-240v/97533