eBay purchase - seller refusing full refund

sparrow857

Hi all,

Wasn’t sure whether to post this here or in the eBay board, however this one seems more relevant. Sorry if I’m wrong! 

Just looking for some advice on behalf of my dad. 

My Dad purchased a wooden canopy for his front door on 9th September from an eBay seller. Cost was £325 + £55 postage = total cost £380. It arrived on 21st September which was a Tuesday. My dad works full time and planned to install the canopy at the weekend, so didn’t open it until the Saturday morning. When he opened it, he noticed it was badly damaged and couldn’t be used. He contacted the seller who initially refused to do anything as he hadn’t reported the damage within 24 hours. My dad persisted however and seller eventually agreed to collect. He messaged my dad one evening and advised it would be collected the following day by Parcelforce. My dad packaged the item up with the original packaging and it was duly collected on 29th September. 

My dad heard back from the seller at the end of last week who advised they are very disappointed in the condition the item was received in. He advises this has suffered further damage due to not being packaged correctly and is blaming my dad for this. The seller states it cannot be repaired and will have to be scrapped so he cannot offer him a full refund and will be deducting £80 from his refund, therefore refunding £300. He also mentioned that he is angry at paying £40 for collection as my dad obviously cared very little for the contents - seller’s words. 

My dad has spoken to eBay, however they haven’t given much advice other than to speak with the seller. I’ve had a look on my dad’s eBay account and cannot see anywhere to raise a dispute. It was paid for directly by debit card, rather than PayPal so just wondering if a chargeback would be an option? Or should my dad be responsible for the additional damage? 

Many thanks and sorry it’s so long. 

ItsComingRome

The eBay Money Back Guarantee is for 30 days post-delivery.  Is there not an option next to the item for "Return Item?"

Does he have the tracking number for the item being sent back to the seller?

sparrow857

ItsComingRome said:

The eBay Money Back Guarantee is for 30 days post-delivery.  Is there not an option next to the item for "Return Item?"

Does he have the tracking number for the item being sent back to the seller?

Thanks for your reply. I’ll double check the account again tonight but I couldn’t see anything. 

I don’t think he has a tracking number. My mum was there when Parcelforce collected, but again, I’ll check with him if he has this. The seller hasn’t disputed receiving the item back, he’s just unhappy that it has further damage. 

ItsComingRome

sparrow857 said:

ItsComingRome said:

The eBay Money Back Guarantee is for 30 days post-delivery.  Is there not an option next to the item for "Return Item?"

Does he have the tracking number for the item being sent back to the seller?

Thanks for your reply. I’ll double check the account again tonight but I couldn’t see anything. 

I don’t think he has a tracking number. My mum was there when Parcelforce collected, but again, I’ll check with him if he has this. The seller hasn’t disputed receiving the item back, he’s just unhappy that it has further damage. 

Yes, but eBay's system will require proof (from a tracking number) that the item was sent back. Whilst you could call them and see if someone is willing to think outside the box a bit and accept the seller's messages confirming it was sent back as being acceptable proof there's a good chance they won't be willing to do that.

A chargeback would not be appropriate because it would be a chargeback against eBay and they have kept up their side of the bargain. They're highly likely to contest it and win.

Whilst a seller can make a deduction for any damage to the item it may be hard to justify if the item was already damaged.  If it genuinely was poorly packaged and that has made the damage worse then they're not being unrealistic here. If it was genuinely repairable they're not being completely unreasonable.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

The eBay Moneyback Guarantee is valid for 30 days after the last ETA on the order details page or 30 days after the tracking shows as delivered/collected, if the seller has added the tracking to the order.

If you call or chat with eBay and ask them to open a return for the item not being as described they should do this for you, best to do this asap

If a return were to be opened with not as described for the reason, for an oversized item such as this, the seller should sort out the return with the buyer so, as long as the person you speak to at eBay is competent, the seller having booked a collection and confirmed receipt via the eBay messaging service should be no trouble at all.

If the seller is Top Rated they can deduct up to 50% from the refund but you can appeal this should it happen. 

With chargebacks via your card provider, if a claim is for non-receipt eBay ask the seller for tracking, if the seller has this eBay cover the seller and try to defend the claim (if they wish to) and it's straightforward.

However for a not as described chargeback they ask the seller for photos to show the item was as described and it's doubtful eBay/the seller would be able to defend the claim with the card issuer.

In terms of packing for the return, I don't recall reference in the Consumer Rights Act for diminished value due to the customer damaging the goods (either directly or indirectly such as a possibility in this instance) but there is always the option for small claims to recover damages if one party wishes to (which is unlikely to happen). 

A sensible seller will provide the buyer with very clear instructions on how to package items for return if they are bothered about them becoming damaged,.

If the item was packed for the return at least as well as it was by the seller in the first instance then I would say that's reasonable regardless of whether the courier then damaged the item, as the courier was acting as their agent. 

ItsComingRome

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

The eBay Moneyback Guarantee is valid for 30 days after the last ETA on the order details page or 30 days after the tracking shows as delivered/collected, if the seller has added the tracking to the order.

If you call or chat with eBay and ask them to open a return for the item not being as described they should do this for you, best to do this asap

If a return were to be opened with not as described for the reason, for an oversized item such as this, the seller should sort out the return with the buyer so, as long as the person you speak to at eBay is competent, the seller having booked a collection and confirmed receipt via the eBay messaging service should be no trouble at all.

If the seller is Top Rated they can deduct up to 50% from the refund but you can appeal this should it happen. 

With chargebacks via your card provider, if a claim is for non-receipt eBay ask the seller for tracking, if the seller has this eBay cover the seller and try to defend the claim (if they wish to) and it's straightforward.

However for a not as described chargeback they ask the seller for photos to show the item was as described and it's doubtful eBay/the seller would be able to defend the claim with the card issuer.

In terms of packing for the return, I don't recall reference in the Consumer Rights Act for diminished value due to the customer damaging the goods (either directly or indirectly such as a possibility in this instance) but there is always the option for small claims to recover damages if one party wishes to (which is unlikely to happen). 

A sensible seller will provide the buyer with very clear instructions on how to package items for return if they are bothered about them becoming damaged,.

If the item was packed for the return at least as well as it was by the seller in the first instance then I would say that's reasonable regardless of whether the courier then damaged the item, as the courier was acting as their agent. 

I'm sorry but this is all kind of wrong.

If you call or chat with eBay and ask them to open a return for the item not being as described they should do this for you, best to do this asap

The OP is going to be required to show the item was returned.  They cannot do this as they do not have a tracking number.

With chargebacks via your card provider, if a claim is for non-receipt eBay ask the seller for tracking, if the seller has this eBay cover the seller and try to defend the claim (if they wish to) and it's straightforward.

However for a not as described chargeback they ask the seller for photos to show the item was as described and it's doubtful eBay/the seller would be able to defend the claim with the card issuer.

You fundamentally misunderstand how this sales process works.  The OP paid eBay to pay the seller.  eBay upheld their end of the bargain by passing the money to the seller.  There is no chargeback right here, and eBay will defend it as it's completely meritless.

In terms of packing for the return, I don't recall reference in the Consumer Rights Act for diminished value due to the customer damaging the goods (either directly or indirectly such as a possibility in this instance) but there is always the option for small claims to recover damages if one party wishes to (which is unlikely to happen). 

Really? You're always first to spout the CRA.  Do you really think the Consumer Rights Act allows people to return damaged goods (of their own fault) and get a full refund vs someone handling the goods and getting a partial one?  Really?

A sensible seller will provide the buyer with very clear instructions on how to package items for return if they are bothered about them becoming damaged,.

If the item was packed for the return at least as well as it was by the seller in the first instance then I would say that's reasonable regardless of whether the courier then damaged the item, as the courier was acting as their agent. 

And a sensible buyer wouldn't need clear instructions on how to package it.  It should, at least, go in the original packaging or something like it.

You're out of your depth, again.  Can you please stop thinking?  It doesn't work.

TELLIT01

What somebody is legally entitled to and what they can get aren't always the same thing.  In this situation where there seem to be parts of the jigsaw missing (tracking number and dispute about additional damage) might it not be better to settle for most of the cake rather than risk getting none of it?  Pragmatism can be better than demanding rights and failing.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

ItsComingRome said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

The eBay Moneyback Guarantee is valid for 30 days after the last ETA on the order details page or 30 days after the tracking shows as delivered/collected, if the seller has added the tracking to the order.

If you call or chat with eBay and ask them to open a return for the item not being as described they should do this for you, best to do this asap

If a return were to be opened with not as described for the reason, for an oversized item such as this, the seller should sort out the return with the buyer so, as long as the person you speak to at eBay is competent, the seller having booked a collection and confirmed receipt via the eBay messaging service should be no trouble at all.

If the seller is Top Rated they can deduct up to 50% from the refund but you can appeal this should it happen. 

With chargebacks via your card provider, if a claim is for non-receipt eBay ask the seller for tracking, if the seller has this eBay cover the seller and try to defend the claim (if they wish to) and it's straightforward.

However for a not as described chargeback they ask the seller for photos to show the item was as described and it's doubtful eBay/the seller would be able to defend the claim with the card issuer.

In terms of packing for the return, I don't recall reference in the Consumer Rights Act for diminished value due to the customer damaging the goods (either directly or indirectly such as a possibility in this instance) but there is always the option for small claims to recover damages if one party wishes to (which is unlikely to happen). 

A sensible seller will provide the buyer with very clear instructions on how to package items for return if they are bothered about them becoming damaged,.

If the item was packed for the return at least as well as it was by the seller in the first instance then I would say that's reasonable regardless of whether the courier then damaged the item, as the courier was acting as their agent. 

I'm sorry but this is all kind of wrong.

If you call or chat with eBay and ask them to open a return for the item not being as described they should do this for you, best to do this asap

The OP is going to be required to show the item was returned.  They cannot do this as they do not have a tracking number.

With chargebacks via your card provider, if a claim is for non-receipt eBay ask the seller for tracking, if the seller has this eBay cover the seller and try to defend the claim (if they wish to) and it's straightforward.

However for a not as described chargeback they ask the seller for photos to show the item was as described and it's doubtful eBay/the seller would be able to defend the claim with the card issuer.

You fundamentally misunderstand how this sales process works.  The OP paid eBay to pay the seller.  eBay upheld their end of the bargain by passing the money to the seller.  There is no chargeback right here, and eBay will defend it as it's completely meritless.

In terms of packing for the return, I don't recall reference in the Consumer Rights Act for diminished value due to the customer damaging the goods (either directly or indirectly such as a possibility in this instance) but there is always the option for small claims to recover damages if one party wishes to (which is unlikely to happen). 

Really? You're always first to spout the CRA.  Do you really think the Consumer Rights Act allows people to return damaged goods (of their own fault) and get a full refund vs someone handling the goods and getting a partial one?  Really?

A sensible seller will provide the buyer with very clear instructions on how to package items for return if they are bothered about them becoming damaged,.

If the item was packed for the return at least as well as it was by the seller in the first instance then I would say that's reasonable regardless of whether the courier then damaged the item, as the courier was acting as their agent. 

And a sensible buyer wouldn't need clear instructions on how to package it.  It should, at least, go in the original packaging or something like it.

You're out of your depth, again.  Can you please stop thinking?  It doesn't work.

A few quick points, eBay will consider any messages between the buyer and seller, tracking is ideal but if the seller confirms receipt of the return via the eBay messages eBay will consider this. The return will likely be closed in the seller's favour to begin with leaving the buyer to appeal. Equally depending on the value and the buyer eBay can extend goodwill and cover the refund themselves, basically if the computer says yes. 

Buyers can open chargebacks for eBay purchases, what happens is as stated and covered here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes-managed-payments-seller?id=4799

The CRA doesn't allow buyers to damage goods, I just don't recall anything in there about the seller reducing the refund for the buyer damaging goods meaning the seller will have to recover their loses without the help of the CRA. 

Consumer rights, as well as the eBay Money Back Guarantee, are weighted in the buyer's favour, a sensible seller will assume there aren't any sensible buyers and give specific instructions, by doing so they show they have acted reasonably and the buyer hasn't.