eBay trying to charge me over £1000 for a policy violation.

RealBobbyDazzler

Honestly, having a complete meltdown & nightmare here.  

I have a listing up with eBay under the £3 FVF promotion from a few weeks back, the item is really niche & can be customised to the buyers specification. 
 So I set the Buy it now at £10,000 with best offer on and a message in the description of the sizes, materials & colour they can choose from asking them to discuss with me for a price on their spec (sizing, colours, material) all differ in cost.  The real cost of the item is more like £2000, but did it this way to discuss what the buyer wants and I would amend the listing for the cost & their order so the description was transparent of the goods they were buying so I wouldn't have any come back.  I didn't want anyone to just press buy it now.  I'm a relatively new private seller with 40 feedback, the item I'm selling is a one off I don't have multiple to sell, just can vary the bulk of it before selling the accessories separately. 

I had a message about 2 weeks ago with questions on the materials & colours I had, I told them what I had and they wanted to see them.  It was about 20 photos and wouldn't allow me to send them due to the size of each photo being over the ridiculously low file size they set.  I told them I couldn't send them & asked if they could provide an e-mail or number for me to send the photos across.  They replied back with a phone number, I sent the photos across and heard no more.

The item is still listed for sale on eBay now, although it was relisted as the £3 FVF promotion ended so relisted it under the 80% promotion.  I always do that, things that don't sell I end the listing and relist when another promo arrives.

Last night received an email from eBay that I'd broken policy by making contact outside of eBay, looking back on the situation I see my error - but was trying to do my best for the customer & make a sale.  I was more than happy to use eBay for both mine and the buyers protection, plus the fact it would have only cost me £3 for the fees under promo!!!  

They've now sent a fee request of over £1000 due to the item list price being £10k..... I've spent all of last night calling them in the Philipines and speaking to a supervisor, apparantly the 'fee' is not relating to the actual sale so the promotion is irrelevant as far as they're concerned, the fee is relating to a violation of terms hence not being the £3 I would have expected.  Theyr'e demanding this money, telling me there's no discussion on it and rudely hanging up, they wont allow me to speak just read out the terms & talk over me telling me there is NO DISCUSSION, I've been hung up on 3 times.. I'm being really polite just asking the question why it isn't the final value fee price and how I can see how they've possibly worked out this £1000+ 'fee'.  I've even said I can photograph the item with time & date stamps, and show the text conversation of just photos being sent.  

Honestly, I don't know what to do.  I've had a sleepless night and spent hours on the phone trying to discuss the fee with someone & get hung up on & now being told if I call again they wont speak to me.

What advice would anyone give me, do I empty the money from my bank account so they can't take the funds, I just am completely lost.  Being asked or forced to pay £1000+ for an item worth 2k maximum that hasn't even sold is crazy.  And even more suprising, they wont explain the fee value amount.  I thought it was the final value fee without promotions, but it is hundreds off.

Any advice or help would be massively appreciated.
Thanks

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

In your My eBay you should be able to see both active and expired promotions somewhere which will show the item numbers assigned to each promotion, grab some screenshots to show the item was listed under the £3 FVF capped promotion.

eBay does usually say on the promotions T&Cs that they can exclude you from the promotion for attempting to manipulate the promotion but I think they'd have to tell you that you've been excluded rather than just do so and then claim items sold are now charged at full price. 

If you have a bank account attached to eBay then yes I'd empty it (and cancel any overdraft). 

I don't think eBay will chase this if they can't get the funds from your payment methods, particularly if you are a private seller, as it's a very questionable action. 

On the one hand they can say they've suffered a loss as the item was sold outside the platform but the services were used to introduce the buyer on the other hand, in this case, you haven't sold the item. 

eBay may well close your account.

It's a big headache, good luck  

RealBobbyDazzler

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

In your My eBay you should be able to see both active and expired promotions somewhere which will show the item numbers assigned to each promotion, grab some screenshots to show the item was listed under the £3 FVF capped promotion.

eBay does usually say on the promotions T&Cs that they can exclude you from the promotion for attempting to manipulate the promotion but I think they'd have to tell you that you've been excluded rather than just do so and then claim items sold are now charged at full price. 

If you have a bank account attached to eBay then yes I'd empty it (and cancel any overdraft). 

I don't think eBay will chase this if they can't get the funds from your payment methods, particularly if you are a private seller, as it's a very questionable action. 

On the one hand they can say they've suffered a loss as the item was sold outside the platform but the services were used to introduce the buyer on the other hand, in this case, you haven't sold the item. 

eBay may well close your account.

It's a big headache, good luck  

Thanks for the advice, I have spoken to an apparant supervisor on the phone & said those things about the promos.  I told him about the listing promotions & queried how the fee was calculated and he said it was irrelevant - that isn't what the charge they've raised is for and the final value fee for the item at the cost of 10k with no promotions, just the standard final fee differs by a few hundred quid (less) than what they're charging me so that adds up with what they're telling me.... The calculation of the fee is apparantly something they do not share but includes admin costs and violation fees, not final value fees.

They also believe me that the item hasn't sold outside of eBay, but nonetheless the violation remains so they say and this charge of over a grand warrants this.

 You can't have a discussion with them, I've spoken to 4 different people and they don't allow you to talk, just constantly talk over you reading out the T&C's before either hanging up mid conversation or telling me "No matter how many times I ring their decision is final".  

I've emptied the account but have read about them chasing the fees, and to be honest.. I kinda enjoy eBay but this seems crazy to me & has sent my stress through the roof.  I've never been chased for money in my life, especially for how ridiculous this feels to me.  Why would I sell outside eBay over a £3 fee..... 

k12479

It's difficult to follow what's happened, but the following stands out:

RealBobbyDazzler said:

Buy it now at £10,000 with best offer on....description of the sizes, materials & colour they can choose from asking them to discuss with me for a price on their spec (sizing, colours, material) all differ in cost.  The real cost of the item is more like £2000....£3 FVF promotion...

While the £3 FVF promo T&Cs I can see say: "Private sellers activated on managed payments only...".

At a guess it may have something to do with business sales through a personal account.

RealBobbyDazzler

k12479 said:

It's difficult to follow what's happened, but the following stands out:

RealBobbyDazzler said:

Buy it now at £10,000 with best offer on....description of the sizes, materials & colour they can choose from asking them to discuss with me for a price on their spec (sizing, colours, material) all differ in cost.  The real cost of the item is more like £2000....£3 FVF promotion...

While the £3 FVF promo T&Cs I can see say: "Private sellers activated on managed payments only...".

At a guess it may have something to do with business sales through a personal account.

I'm on managed payments, I've sold a few things under the promotion and the fee has always been £3 or 80% off.  It's not a business sale, it's my own personal item I'm selling.  I only have 1 set of them, but multiple accessories for it - you only need 1 of each part but I have different sizes or colours to choose from.  Whatever doesn't sell as the complete kit I'll sell separately.

soolin

As soon as you breach an ebay rule (and actually the OP unknowingly broke severa) then any promotions are null and void.

Under their rules the FVF calculated is due- however, I would suggest a real effort and throwing yourself on their mercy and explaining that you are new to selling might reduce this down to a warning and perhaps the suspension of future offers for a period.

Just for reference ebay is probably not the place for this item as you can't offer options- the price you list at is the price the buyer pays- any manipulation or changing of options and prices is manipulation and not allowed.You also already realise that trying to swap email addresses or other contact details is a serious breach- possibly one of the most serious at the moment and may already see the loss of your account.

"And even more suprising, they wont explain the fee value amount.  I thought it was the final value fee without promotions, but it is hundreds off."

that's the easy bit 10% of £10,000

If you have unlinked all your accounts then ebay cannot physically take the money and so far no one has ever posted a verifiable account of ebay taking someone to court. They will chase for the amount and debt colelctors will be involved , so make sure you are aware of their limitations and ensure that you don't acknowledge them or allow them into your home. However if you can't persuade them to cancel the fee then obviously your account is lost, and anyone even slightly close to you that ebay could tie to you is also likely to face issues.

fenwick458

I'd keep calling the call centre until you can speak to someone from Ireland or northern Ireland, you'll at least have a chance with them. I had a problem recently and it was just like banging my head on a brick wall trying to get through to the Pilipino operators, but then got through to an Irish guy and it was sorted in no time.
Part of the reason you won't get through to the Pilipino lot is I don't think they understand you, they are just reading off a script and doing basic things a monkey could do. give them a tough problem to solve and they just repeat themselves again and again as if they are reading off a script and hang up if that fails!

RealBobbyDazzler

fenwick458 said:

I'd keep calling the call centre until you can speak to someone from Ireland or northern Ireland, you'll at least have a chance with them. I had a problem recently and it was just like banging my head on a brick wall trying to get through to the Pilipino operators, but then got through to an Irish guy and it was sorted in no time.
Part of the reason you won't get through to the Pilipino lot is I don't think they understand you, they are just reading off a script and doing basic things a monkey could do. give them a tough problem to solve and they just repeat themselves again and again as if they are reading off a script and hang up if that fails!

Mind me asking how you got through to NI, I've tried requesting calls and each time it's from the Philippines.  Their English is good, but they just talk over me and read a script before hanging up regardless of whether or not I'm still talking.

RealBobbyDazzler

soolin said:

As soon as you breach an ebay rule (and actually the OP unknowingly broke severa) then any promotions are null and void.

Under their rules the FVF calculated is due- however, I would suggest a real effort and throwing yourself on their mercy and explaining that you are new to selling might reduce this down to a warning and perhaps the suspension of future offers for a period.

Just for reference ebay is probably not the place for this item as you can't offer options- the price you list at is the price the buyer pays- any manipulation or changing of options and prices is manipulation and not allowed.You also already realise that trying to swap email addresses or other contact details is a serious breach- possibly one of the most serious at the moment and may already see the loss of your account.

"And even more suprising, they wont explain the fee value amount.  I thought it was the final value fee without promotions, but it is hundreds off."

that's the easy bit 10% of £10,000

If you have unlinked all your accounts then ebay cannot physically take the money and so far no one has ever posted a verifiable account of ebay taking someone to court. They will chase for the amount and debt colelctors will be involved , so make sure you are aware of their limitations and ensure that you don't acknowledge them or allow them into your home. However if you can't persuade them to cancel the fee then obviously your account is lost, and anyone even slightly close to you that ebay could tie to you is also likely to face issues.

What seems unfair is that they're charging me relating to the £10,000.. what would you do in my situation? - I can't get any where with calling them & I'm hesitant on not paying with the thread of bailiffs.. I've never been in a situation owing money in my life.  If they would read my messages regarding the item they'd see the amount of money in discussion would be around 1-2k. 

I knew selling outside of eBay wasn't allowed, but didn't realise sending someone photos relating to the item was part of this.  From their side, why would I risk selling outside of eBay when my final value fee was only £3.

Also, this exception confuses me - surely this is all I've done but with me asking it from the buyer?

• Share or request direct contact information prior to completing a sale
  • Exception: Sellers may opt to provide their phone number as part of the Ask a Seller a Question (ASQ) or any other eBay endorsed functionality

soolin

RealBobbyDazzler said:

soolin said:

As soon as you breach an ebay rule (and actually the OP unknowingly broke severa) then any promotions are null and void.

Under their rules the FVF calculated is due- however, I would suggest a real effort and throwing yourself on their mercy and explaining that you are new to selling might reduce this down to a warning and perhaps the suspension of future offers for a period.

Just for reference ebay is probably not the place for this item as you can't offer options- the price you list at is the price the buyer pays- any manipulation or changing of options and prices is manipulation and not allowed.You also already realise that trying to swap email addresses or other contact details is a serious breach- possibly one of the most serious at the moment and may already see the loss of your account.

"And even more suprising, they wont explain the fee value amount.  I thought it was the final value fee without promotions, but it is hundreds off."

that's the easy bit 10% of £10,000

If you have unlinked all your accounts then ebay cannot physically take the money and so far no one has ever posted a verifiable account of ebay taking someone to court. They will chase for the amount and debt colelctors will be involved , so make sure you are aware of their limitations and ensure that you don't acknowledge them or allow them into your home. However if you can't persuade them to cancel the fee then obviously your account is lost, and anyone even slightly close to you that ebay could tie to you is also likely to face issues.

What seems unfair is that they're charging me relating to the £10,000.. what would you do in my situation? - I can't get any where with calling them & I'm hesitant on not paying with the thread of bailiffs.. I've never been in a situation owing money in my life.  If they would read my messages regarding the item they'd see the amount of money in discussion would be around 1-2k. 

I knew selling outside of eBay wasn't allowed, but didn't realise sending someone photos relating to the item was part of this.  From their side, why would I risk selling outside of eBay when my final value fee was only £3.

Also, this exception confuses me - surely this is all I've done but with me asking it from the buyer?

• Share or request direct contact information prior to completing a sale
  • Exception: Sellers may opt to provide their phone number as part of the Ask a Seller a Question (ASQ) or any other eBay endorsed functionality

The exception for exchanging telephone numbers doesn’t seem to be in the current general T and Cs although frankly the T and Cs are not always reliable 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/contact-information-sharing-policy?id=4373&st=3&pos=5&query=Contact%20information%20sharing%20policy&intent=Exchanging%20details&lucenceai=lucenceai&docId=HELP1317

Sharing direct contact information prior to an eBay purchase is not allowed.

eBay takes the privacy of its members very seriously so, generally, we don't allow user contact information to be published or displayed on our site.

What is the policy?

Publishing or displaying contact information in a listing without the permission of eBay, or except as required by law, is not allowed. User contact information includes information used to contact another member outside of eBay such as:

• Addresses
• Phone number
• Email address

As for the FVF that would be based on your selling price (after the offer was removed for violation) and your BIN price was £10,000 . Ebay don’t allow you to negotiate prices by offering or removing extras, the only offers allowed are properly through the ebay system for offers. 

I would try ebay early in the morning or late in the evening as you are more likely to get NI.

As above though if you decide to walk away from ebay then it is near guaranteed that they will not take you to court .

Spoonie_Turtle

RealBobbyDazzler said:

I knew selling outside of eBay wasn't allowed, but didn't realise sending someone photos relating to the item was part of this.  From their side, why would I risk selling outside of eBay when my final value fee was only £3.

Off-eBay sales mean the buyer has no easily-enforcible rights after the sale, and can't ask eBay for help if anything goes wrong - the kind of thing a dodgy seller would quite like to take advantage of.

Not that I'm implying you are one, not at all, but that's one reason an off-eBay sale is a red flag to them.  Particularly with an item listed at that price.