Illegal vs immoral PCN scams

ProfParker

I'm a PCN victim and, like most others here, I started out as a complete novice - not realising what a vipers nest I was entering... naively went through the PPC appeal process then IAS appeal (rejected, or course). As I read more about various PCN "infringement" scenarios and speak to other people, the more strongly I suspect that (at least some) PPCs operate on three distinct levels (a) legitimate car park services (b) immoral practices and (c) criminal/fraud. I worry that there is not enough emphasis on (c).

What are people's views on the practices they would consider organised crime/fraud. I can start the ball rolling with (1) Taking the first entry and last exit times from multiple parking sessions and claiming this is one long stay (2) Phishing - sending out a PCN simply hoping the user no longer has the ticket (who keeps tickets for 2 weeks?) (3) rigged ticket machines that accept only the first letter of the registration number (previously all letters except the first one until that scam was rumbled!).  

Finally, if we think the PPC has acted illegally, how does that affect the process of defending the PCN?

Redx

1) agreed, parking prankster posted about it about 5 or more years ago

2) MSE advice from may 2017  https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/team-blog/2017/05/throwing-pay-display-ticket-away-use-cost-100/

3) or ticket machines that are faulty, out of use, dont issue a paper receipt , dont accept all the characters , allow O to be used instead of 0 , dont check the VRM entry against the VRM registrations picked up by ANPR cameras, etc

It is difficult to prove illegality, because thats a criminal issue , they may be committing fraud, or altering timestamps on photos, or misreads, or incorrect time sychronisation between cameras and PDT machines , or not accounting for the 1 hour rollback or addon every year for GMT to BST and back to GMT , loads of reasons that may be mistakes, may be fraud like when UKPC were found out , maybe putting up signs, ticketing , then removing the sighs promptly, or self ticketing issues, or predatory tactics , or a myriad of other sc@ms we have seen over the years

even the addon £60 or £70 is deemed unlawful under WILKINSON and the Recorder Cohen judgment , etc

a civil court judge tends to deal with the case as is, where fraud etc is never admitted, possibly not proven either

nicestrawb

What many of them are doing is immoral and in many cases, no doubt, they are breaking the law but finding out is hard enough let alone proving it. When you're a PPC you have to be extra careful because you know all eyes are on you. Not defending scumbags but it's not limited to the parking industry by a long shot. It happens the world over. Jeff Bezos has attempted to fund his space ship by screwing me over several times and I've had to threaten his little organization in order to get my money back...

ProfParker

Thanks for those comments. It's so frustrating. I came across a site doing a survey of PCN scenarios - PrivateParkingResearch.uk - perhaps if enough people entered their alleged infringement some interesting results would be reported?

NCC1701-A

Hmmm, a newbie recommending a strange website.

"We are a group of academic researchers wishing to discover the range of user experiences following receipt of a PCN from a UK private car park operator"

But they forget to say which academic research department they are from, or recognise that the experiences will be different in NI, Scotland and England & Wales as they are covered by different rues, and the whole shebang is being redone by MHCLG next year.  So any results will be out of date.

Personally I'll not complete it.

Redx

Ditto , as above

The Mhclg CoP from summer 2022 will change the system , so we are in limbo waiting for it , as we have been for a few years

No point in doing anything else at this late stage

ProfParker

Yes, I'm a newbie (having only recently received my first PCN and now being the in process of a naive IAS appeal, which I now assume will be rejected). But from what I've read of the CoP 2022, it will legitimise the PPC making 'admin' charges for 'keying errors', leaving the door wide open to continued rigged ticket machine scams, so it'll be business as usual. This seems like a major flaw and a victory for the rogue PPCs.

I don't really share the optimism that there's no point doing anything at this stage, and a data science approach seems like an excellent way of exposing the worst offenders, who let's face it have got away with it (and continue to) for years hiding behind a lack of solid evidence for the magnitude of their scamming methods. 

So I don't see the harm in contributing - it's anonymous and anything that helps the fight must surely be worth it.

Redx

Nobody said don't contribute , I have done so for 8.5 years !

Did you fill in the government consultation last month ? 🤔🤔 We did , that's another way we contributed , every little helps 😁😁