Served notice without valid Energy Certificate

ProDave

mrkat said:

MaryNB said:

The S21 is not an eviction notice and cannot be used to evict you. All is does is allow the landlord to apply to the court for an eviction order. It will take many many months (possibly more than a year) for it to get to court once he applies.
You are still legally allow to reside at the property after an S21 expires. Your tenancy does not end unless you give notice or the court issues an eviction order.  

ETA: With regards to the EPC, did you tenancy start or was it renewed after the 1st of  October 2015?

Thanks for the clarification. The tenancy started with a valid (D rating) EPC in 2019 which ran out in July 2020. He then got a new one in June 2021 (F rating)

So what happened to make the second EPC an F?  Did he take out all the insulation or something?

FaceHead

You could just simply refuse to move out. As others have said it would take a couple of years and legal fees from this point for the landlord to get you out. You might as well stop paying rent in the meantime and you'll get a couple of years rent free. 

Alternatively, you could honour the agreement you made with the landlord that you'll move with, what, 2 month's notice.

mrkat

ProDave said:

mrkat said:

MaryNB said:

The S21 is not an eviction notice and cannot be used to evict you. All is does is allow the landlord to apply to the court for an eviction order. It will take many many months (possibly more than a year) for it to get to court once he applies.
You are still legally allow to reside at the property after an S21 expires. Your tenancy does not end unless you give notice or the court issues an eviction order.  

ETA: With regards to the EPC, did you tenancy start or was it renewed after the 1st of  October 2015?

Thanks for the clarification. The tenancy started with a valid (D rating) EPC in 2019 which ran out in July 2020. He then got a new one in June 2021 (F rating)

So what happened to make the second EPC an F?  Did he take out all the insulation or something?

I know that before we moved in, he had to have the roof replaced, I think in 2018, and when the energy certificate guy came, he said that the roof has no insulation so it was either never there to begin with or was never replaced. Also, the chimney started to let damp through at the start of the year which wasn't showing when we first moved in.

AdrianC

ProDave said:

mrkat said:

MaryNB said:

The S21 is not an eviction notice and cannot be used to evict you. All is does is allow the landlord to apply to the court for an eviction order. It will take many many months (possibly more than a year) for it to get to court once he applies.
You are still legally allow to reside at the property after an S21 expires. Your tenancy does not end unless you give notice or the court issues an eviction order.  

ETA: With regards to the EPC, did you tenancy start or was it renewed after the 1st of  October 2015?

Thanks for the clarification. The tenancy started with a valid (D rating) EPC in 2019 which ran out in July 2020. He then got a new one in June 2021 (F rating)

So what happened to make the second EPC an F?  Did he take out all the insulation or something?

A quick look at the full EPCs (not just the overview graph) will make it clear. It'll be down to a different set of assumptions.

AdrianC

FaceHead said:

You could just simply refuse to move out. As others have said it would take a couple of years and legal fees from this point for the landlord to get you out. You might as well stop paying rent in the meantime and you'll get a couple of years rent free.

You won't, because the landlord can still issue a court claim against you for the debt - any unpaid rent, any damages beyond deposit, any fees incurred in regaining possession.

And he will win.

Unless you have absolutely zero regard for your credit history, you will need to pay those debts plus the court fees.

mrkat

AdrianC said:

ProDave said:

mrkat said:

MaryNB said:

The S21 is not an eviction notice and cannot be used to evict you. All is does is allow the landlord to apply to the court for an eviction order. It will take many many months (possibly more than a year) for it to get to court once he applies.
You are still legally allow to reside at the property after an S21 expires. Your tenancy does not end unless you give notice or the court issues an eviction order.  

ETA: With regards to the EPC, did you tenancy start or was it renewed after the 1st of  October 2015?

Thanks for the clarification. The tenancy started with a valid (D rating) EPC in 2019 which ran out in July 2020. He then got a new one in June 2021 (F rating)

So what happened to make the second EPC an F?  Did he take out all the insulation or something?

A quick look at the full EPCs (not just the overview graph) will make it clear. It'll be down to a different set of assumptions.

Found it, yes it looks like the roof insulation was taken out and not reinstalled!

mrkat

AdrianC said:

FaceHead said:

You could just simply refuse to move out. As others have said it would take a couple of years and legal fees from this point for the landlord to get you out. You might as well stop paying rent in the meantime and you'll get a couple of years rent free.

You won't, because the landlord can still issue a court claim against you for the debt - any unpaid rent, any damages beyond deposit, any fees incurred in regaining possession.

And he will win.

Unless you have absolutely zero regard for your credit history, you will need to pay those debts plus the court fees.

We wouldn't not pay rent. We just don't want to leave completely by his terms when he has treated us so badly. We put up with a lot and always went above and beyond to make his life easier in the past when we were on good terms. Then he threatened us with eviction because a buyer suddenly wanted us to leave with 2 weeks notice. We just feel like now, we don't owe him or the buyer anything so want to do as much on our terms as possible.

AdrianC

mrkat said:

AdrianC said:

ProDave said:

So what happened to make the second EPC an F?  Did he take out all the insulation or something?

A quick look at the full EPCs (not just the overview graph) will make it clear. It'll be down to a different set of assumptions.

Found it, yes it looks like the roof insulation was taken out and not reinstalled!

Or there was never any there, but it was assumed originally?

Either way, if that's all it is, and it's a normal loft, it's a trivially easy and cheap fix.

MaryNB

mrkat said:

AdrianC said:

FaceHead said:

You could just simply refuse to move out. As others have said it would take a couple of years and legal fees from this point for the landlord to get you out. You might as well stop paying rent in the meantime and you'll get a couple of years rent free.

You won't, because the landlord can still issue a court claim against you for the debt - any unpaid rent, any damages beyond deposit, any fees incurred in regaining possession.

And he will win.

Unless you have absolutely zero regard for your credit history, you will need to pay those debts plus the court fees.

We wouldn't not pay rent. We just don't want to leave completely by his terms when he has treated us so badly. We put up with a lot and always went above and beyond to make his life easier in the past when we were on good terms. Then he threatened us with eviction because a buyer suddenly wanted us to leave with 2 weeks notice. We just feel like now, we don't owe him or the buyer anything so want to do as much on our terms as possible.

If he does that again remind him that an eviction without a court order is criminal offence. 

He could have waited until you had found somewhere else to live to market the property. Or he could have reinstalled the roof insulation and marketed to another landlord so you could stay put. 
But he obviously didn't want to go without rent for a few months or to drop the price to sell with tenants in situ. The situation is entirely his own doing.

The buyer was naive to bid on a house with tenants in situ. In no circumstances can you get tennants out with two weeks notice. 

elsien

giraffe69 said:

Maybe if he would like you to go he might be prepared to negotiate with an offer of cash? It would likely be a lot quicker for him and a way of keeping his buyers onside.

An offer of cash isn’t going to be much help if OP can’t find another place to move to.