Buying house - steel lintel, no building regs cert - not happy with indemnity!

thegreenone

How long to get certification depends on the builder and the Planning Department.  

My husband is an SE and he was asked to do retrospective regs on a beam earlier this year.  Owners were selling up.   They were prepared and paid for the removal of the plaster and inspection.  My husband submitted calcs, to which the council replied very quickly.  Approved with only a special fire-resistant(?) paint required.  Plasterer repaired and painted. All done and dusted in about three weeks.

FreeBear

Section62 said: There are lots of foolish people who do dangerous things because they don't know or don't understand the risks, or believe it won't happen to them.

Indeed there is. One of my top nominations is William Lyttle - https://www.mylondon.news/news/nostalgia/eccentric-londoner-lived-like-mole-20350163

Doozergirl

thegreenone said:

How long to get certification depends on the builder and the Planning Department.  

My husband is an SE and he was asked to do retrospective regs on a beam earlier this year.  Owners were selling up.   They were prepared and paid for the removal of the plaster and inspection.  My husband submitted calcs, to which the council replied very quickly.  Approved with only a special fire-resistant(?) paint required.  Plasterer repaired and painted. All done and dusted in about three weeks.

That's the reality of it.   Especially if the owner is builder, they will know how quick it is to sort out when you have the knowledge and skill.   

That said, we're also talking of a 'forever home' and it's not worth pulling out over when the hard work is done - creating the opening.  Even replacing the lintel is a day job.
 

There's also the case of an SE saying that it's adequate to hold the load but doesn't meet regs.  That is the case with most of our housing stock now!  In many/most cases, the house itself doesn't have a certificate either, so why do solicitors focus so heavily on alterations when they're not there telling you what level of survey to have...

I've barely dealt with a house sale/purchase that didn't have an indemnity policy involved.  So while yes, people do walk away and we see it on this board, I think that most people don't once they're in a selling situation themselves and see that it's commonplace.   Losing buyers is part of buying and selling houses - frankly, they don't need a reason.  

Scotbot

When was it done? If the owner did the work to a house he and his family live in he is unlikely to have done a bodge job but if you are concerned get a structural engineer to check it. 
If it is a forever home why are you worried about  the regs to sell it? Regs change all the time in 10 maybe even 5  years time any building cert will  be redundant

Section62

Scotbot said:

When was it done? If the owner did the work to a house he and his family live in he is unlikely to have done a bodge job but if you are concerned get a structural engineer to check it. 

See above. That kind of confidence relies on the builder knowing what is and isn't a bodge job.

Since you don't need any kind of qualifications or experience to call yourself a 'builder' what is the differentiation between this person, and some DIYer who woke up on a Saturday morning, decided they wanted a bigger kitchen, and set to work with a hammer?


A structural engineer won't be able to add much value to what the OP already knows without having the structural work uncovered. 

And having done that, there isn't much more required to get BR regularisation - that is assuming the work has been done in a way which complies with the regs.

Scotbot said:

Regs change all the time in 10 maybe even 5  years time any building cert will  be redundant

The regs in relation to structural work don't change that much.  If the work has been completed and signed off now then it will be adequate for the remainder of the life of the building. The certificate to prove that will not become redundant.

hollie.weimeraner

If it was done properly they should have had a structural engineer attend and do the calculations for the lintel.  We had ours done this way and didn't bother with building regs as we weren't intending moving but were satisfied with the quality of the builder.  Unfortunately 6 years later we have moved and the only way to sort the issue was an indemnity insurance which is pretty common actually as some people lose their building regs certificates. If in doubt get a structural engineer to look at it before exchanging contracts.  The lintel needs to be a certain distance from any door  or window (I'm not sure but 6" springs to mind).  Going back for building regs may be a mistake if they cannot see what they need to they will reject it and then that will negate any use of the indemnity insurance.
We kept all the structural engineers calculations and our buyers were happy with that.
If it's been up 5 or 6 years and no cracks then I would suggest it's probably OK but as I said get a structural engineers report.

stuart45

As Section62 said, an SE would need the bearing ends exposed and be able to see the beam size to do the calcs. 

TripleH

Section62, I agree wholeheartedly that the paperwork should have been signed off and the builder should know better.

Sadly it may be that the builder hates doing paperwork and thinks he can get his signed off any time so as a result never gets round to it.

With everything if you give a deadline it focuses minds better but even then people will always leave things to the last minute.

Section62

hollie.weimeraner said:

Unfortunately 6 years later we have moved and the only way to sort the issue was an indemnity insurance which is pretty common actually as some people lose their building regs certificates.

The other option you had was to get regularisation.

Losing BR certificates doesn't matter as the local authority keeps the definitive record and can always be asked for a copy. 

Obtaining indemnity insurance against 'lost' certificates is only necessary if time is critical and asking the LA to provide copies would cause delays resulting in bigger problems.

hollie.weimeraner said:

If in doubt get a structural engineer to look at it before exchanging contracts.  The lintel needs to be a certain distance from any door  or window (I'm not sure but 6" springs to mind).  Going back for building regs may be a mistake if they cannot see what they need to they will reject it and then that will negate any use of the indemnity insurance.

BC won't 'reject' it - they will ask for the work to be uncovered so it can be properly inspected.  This is also what any competent structural engineer would need to do before offering an opinion on the soundness of the structure.

If the vendor/builder declines to uncover the beam, or BC find it to be inadequate, the OP has the warning they need that buying the house could expose them to the costs of getting the work redone safely.  Agreeing to indemnity insurance won't do that, and there is no form of indemnity insurance that can prevent structural collapse.

hollie.weimeraner said:

If it's been up 5 or 6 years and no cracks then I would suggest it's probably OK but as I said get a structural engineers report.

The lack of cracks doesn't mean the structure is OK.  Cracks are a common indicator of structural failure, but structural inadequacy or failure can exist without cracking.  Especially - for example - where a steel beam is hidden under plasterboard and the structural element could move or flex with no visible effect on the surface finish.

Stenwold

OP - you need to do what ever you feel best is for you. All I'd say is this isn't an uncommon scenario at all and there's nothing to say the next house you offer on won't need some sort of indemnity insurance too.