Elderbridge - Urgent help for vulnerable person

kaMelo

deanloco72 said:

Hello everyone,

I have just spoken to Elderbridge and I have confirmed that this is not by 'Firstplus' this was done by "London Scottish" The SAR will have everything including notes.

They have informed me that the remortgage does look 'normal' however he states that it looks like something is not right. 

They have informed us that the annum interest is at 14.5% which he stated is extremely high for a loan of this sort and he has sent an official request to suppress the interest going forward due to the amounts of money paid. 

The mortgage was taken out in 2006 for £45,600 and the total amount of money paid since is a shocking £107,700 in total.

They have told me the correct procedure by making a complaint to see where that gets me and at worst case to contact the Ombudsman Service

Does £107,700 in total with £36,000 remaining for a £44,000 Mortgage seem high to everyone else? Can anyone issue general advice

We will wait on also wait the SAR before we begin the complaints process. 

The call handler seemed stunned almost to the point that he was unhappy with this.

Without wishing to be negative, don't put too much weight upon the call handler appearing sympathetic, they made a lot of noise without actually saying anything.   "Something doesn't look right"  could mean just about anything or nothing at all.

The former First Plus loans seem to have hovered around 7 - 10% which is pretty shocking but 14% is insane on such large sums, I've had credit cards with lower interest rates than that. These are high interest mortgages and they have never hidden this pointing out the customer knew exactly what they signed up for when dealing with complaints taken to the FOS, certainly they only seem to flex the interest rates when the customer is in financial distress and struggling to pay rather than just being unhappy about it.  

It would appear also from reading the FOS decisions regarding Elderbridge that they don't send periodic statements by default. Instead customers can request one FOC at any time. It does seem rather odd not to send at least an annual statement but they don't and the ombudsman has no problem with this, as an unregulated secured loan it's not required to do so.  Rather than burying ones head in the sand it might be a case of there was no sand to bury it in.

Reading the FOS decisions regarding Elderbrige there doesn't seem to be systemic problems or failures and their ability to provide documentation for the ombudsman would indicate good record keeping and they are pretty robust in their defence. I too would be grateful if you could keep the thread updated once you receive the SAR back.

sourcrates

elsien said:

I’m going to ask again, has your mother really had no paperwork or annual statements since her husband’s death, either in his name or hers? 

Only consumer credit act debts require the creditor to send statements, at least on a yearly basis, this is covered by section 77a of the Consumer Credit Act.

This loan is not governed by the CCA, its unregulated, so the provision of a statement is not a requirement the lender needs to worry about, and one would not be sent unless by request. 

Brie

edinburgher said:

Without meaning to be gloomy, they're under no obligation to disclose personal information relating to your grandfather now that he is deceased. Here's hoping they interpret broadly that information relates to him and your grandmother and you get some answers.

I don't quite understand your first sentence here.  Obviously they may under no obligation perhaps but there's also nothing preventing them from discussing the situation as data protection doesn't apply (at all or in the same way) when talking about  someone who is deceased.  Do you think otherwise?

I do agree with the hope that they are interpreting broadly and the info is forthcoming.

sammyjammy

Surely if the property was owned jointly the loan must be in joint names?  In that case there should no issue with getting details of the laon.

Brie

I think then the crucial bit is that her signature was forged and therefore she's not responsible for the debt.  But in normal circumstances (which these really aren't) as i understand it the debt wouldn't have simply died with her husband but may very well have been a debt on the estate which should have been resolved at that point (either by selling the house to pay it off or putting a lien on the house).

I don't think you can count on the fact she doesn't remember.  I suspect that Elderbridge might not believe her.

Overall it's sounds like Grandad scammed them. If you are lucky Elderbridge might accept this and come to a settlement.

Might be a good idea to engage a lawyer.

Borders2017

Its good that shes finally getting help but ignorance isnt an excuse.
It would only be cancelled if there is clear fraud.

Its time to engage proper legal help and you will most likely have to foot the bill for this at the outset.

Brie

I don't think a handwriting expert would be required if the signatures are markedly different.  But you would need her signature from the time the forms were signed - an old passport perhaps or maybe you have a birthday card or old letter stowed away??  

kaMelo

It does indeed sound like a bit of a mess as there are so many angles to go at this from.

deanloco72 said:

Borders2017 said:

Its good that shes finally getting help but ignorance isnt an excuse.
It would only be cancelled if there is clear fraud.

Its time to engage proper legal help and you will most likely have to foot the bill for this at the outset.

Thank you - Agreed! 

It's a bit of a messed up situation that I'm glad I've noticed before things may have got worse.

My grandad's name is still on the land registry however he has passed away, Is this an issue? It's more trivial I would assume.

She has paid £107,000 and only cleared £10,000 of the capital, is there anything I can say to Elderbridge?

What exactly did the London Scottish mortgage taken out in 2006 pay off, as in did it clear the previous mortgage entirely or was it used to simply pay down other debts?  All your grandfathers debts should have been settled upon his death by whoever dealt with his estate, they don't pass onto your grandmother unless she is a joint debtor.
This brings things onto the house deeds which I might suggest could be more than trivial problem.

Do the deeds from the Land Registry really still show your grandad as sole owner? This is something that should have been dealt with winding up his estate after his death especially as he had debts and, as a house owner, he had assets too.
Another potential problem is that charges on jointly owned property cannot be enforced the same way they can if it's sole ownership. I'm not sure either how it can be a sole owned property with Land Registry yet have a joint mortgage, maybe someone more clued up could explain if this is possible. But as sole owner of a property any transfer or sale would usually have to clear the charge first. As a joint mortgage Elderbridge/London Scottish had no reason to enforce the charge upon his death as the mortgage continued. If it was a sole mortgage then when your grandfather died they could enforce the charge.

Were Elderbridge/London Scottish ever informed of your grandfathers death? I know it's a basic, maybe stupid question, but I've not seen anything to say they were.


Coming to the point about your nan's signature not being hers, I would suggest it's important to know how this mortgage was arranged and where the form was signed.  I don't know the original lenders practices, whether this was an advised sale or not for example but I would suspect from what you've said any possible fraud regarding the signature would likely be down to your grandfather rather than the lender London Scottish. 

Even if it was forged and Elderbridge accept that fact, it only absolves your grandmother of any responsibility to pay it. It doesn't resolve the debt which is secured with charge on a home still in your grandfathers name which, if it was dealt with properly when he died, may have resulted in them enforcing that charge at that time.

There is a similar case on the FOS website where the ruling removed one party from a joint loan down to the other party forging the documents. It didn't however reduce or remove the loan from the other party, it just meant they were the only person who could be chased for the debt.


As for the amounts already charged, it's highly unlikely the FOS will make any ruling on what is a commercial decision however they would expect a lender to treat someone fairly going forwards and, reading the FOS decisions, they do seem to do this with suspending interest for those who let them know they are in current difficulty.


I really don't know how this one is going to play out although I would suggest it will be the long haul with a complaint which will needed to be escalated to the ombudsman. I'd certainly do this before thinking of any legal action.

SusieT

deanloco72 said:

I was also led to believe that that the whole mortgage/loan for the house should have been paid via Life Insurance however I am unable and starting to think this was not actioned accordingly.

I would suggest that you make a complaint to Elderbridge, and at the same time try to find out if the life insurance was linked to the earlier mortgage, or, if it would cover any mortgage on the property. IF it covers any mortgage you should get a payout, and if not you are covering yourself with the complaint. 

macman

OP, who was the executor of your grandfather's estate? It certainly sounds as if they have some questions to answer, as they do not appear to have discharged their duties properly. They can be made personally liable for any errors made.