How accurate should the wheel alignment be?

Ermia

I bought my car a few months ago. Recently a friend of mine told me about the free wheel alignment checks at KwikFit and suggested me that it won't hurt to give it a go.

I got there and they tested the car. Below is the report. They offered to align it for £80 but I wasn't sure if it is that serious or just quite minimal. The numbers seem quite small (0.25?)

What are the measurement units? How bad is mine? Does it need alignment? 

Richard53

I'm no expert, but the units are degrees/minutes, so about a third of a degree in each case.  From what I can see, one front wheel is toe-out (negative number) and one is toe-in, which looks wrong.  AFAIK, they should be the same amount, and both either out or in.  If it's a FWD car, I think it should be toe-out on both wheels. I'd get it checked again and corrected, but I wouldn't be going to Kwik-Fit to get it done.

peter3hg

National Tyres have a permanent 50% promotion on front wheel alignment which makes it £15.
Well worth doing at that price.

https://www.national.co.uk/download-voucher/wheelalignment/

facade

Richard53 said:

I'm no expert, but the units are degrees/minutes, so about a third of a degree in each case.  From what I can see, one front wheel is toe-out (negative number) and one is toe-in, which looks wrong.  AFAIK, they should be the same amount, and both either out or in.  If it's a FWD car, I think it should be toe-out on both wheels. I'd get it checked again and corrected, but I wouldn't be going to Kwik-Fit to get it done.

That is because they centre the steering wheel. Then they would adjust both wheels to the same (correct) toe-in so the car goes straight with the wheel straight.

(you would simply turn the wheel slightly now, and the toe would even up each side when the car goes straight- but modern cars have a steering wheel angle sensor, have the wheel too far off straight and the cars electronics get all offended)

The total toe is just outside the green limit, it could do with adjusting, but surely it doesn't cost £80!

Ermia

peter3hg said:

National Tyres have a permanent 50% promotion on front wheel alignment which makes it £15.
Well worth doing at that price.

https://www.national.co.uk/download-voucher/wheelalignment/

It caught my eyes, too. Nonetheless, national tyres have two issues based on these comments on HotUKDeals

1. Many reported that the NT garages refuse the discount with different excuses (e.g. "it doesn't apply to your car becaseu its system is different"). One could book online so that they can't refuse the job, but the online discount code has expired.
2. NT reportedly doesn't do the alignment correctly. "Just note that the steering wheel doesn't always get straightened. The one in Wembley always leave the bottom of steering wheel pointing at 7 o'clock where it should be at 6 o'clock."

facade said:

Richard53 said:

I'm no expert, but the units are degrees/minutes, so about a third of a degree in each case.  From what I can see, one front wheel is toe-out (negative number) and one is toe-in, which looks wrong.  AFAIK, they should be the same amount, and both either out or in.  If it's a FWD car, I think it should be toe-out on both wheels. I'd get it checked again and corrected, but I wouldn't be going to Kwik-Fit to get it done.

That is because they centre the steering wheel. Then they would adjust both wheels to the same (correct) toe-in so the car goes straight with the wheel straight.

(you would simply turn the wheel slightly now, and the toe would even up each side when the car goes straight- but modern cars have a steering wheel angle sensor, have the wheel too far off straight and the cars electronics get all offended)

I actually feel like the tester litteraly didn't straighten my steering wheel, i.e., steering is pointing to the right. So wouldnt wheels be pointing to the right also, like they are? Has anyone ever taken a car in for tracking then to be told the wheels are straight?🤨

If both wheel point roughly 0.20 to the right, then the car is actually good already? 🤔

AdrianC

Toyota (USA) Yaris?

That's a different car to the Yaris we got here. Related, but certainly not identical.

US - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Belta
Europe - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Vitz#XP90

Go back, and get them to re-do it with the right settings...

That apart, look at the way the results are presented - you can see there's a green section either side of the optimum centre point, before you get to the red. That's the allowable tolerance from optimum.
The figures shown on the red bar are the max tolerances.

All those figures are the toe. Look down at the front wheels from dead ahead, and see how parallel they are. There's other measurements, but you can see from the left column that they're mostly green. Camber is how vertical the wheels are, castor is how vertical the steering axis is.

Remember 0.0deg is dead-straight-ahead. -ve toe is toe out (wheels splayed apart), +ve is toe in (wheels splayed in).

Toe for each front wheel separately is allowed to be from -0.02deg to +0.11deg. Yours are +0.2deg and -0.25deg. They're almost parallel, but both going the same way, so your steering wheel will be slightly off-centre with the car going straight on. Perhaps somebody's just adjusted one side in the past, instead of making sure the wheel is straight before adjusting both.

Total toe takes account of that, across the two front wheels, so is obviously each of the two wheels added together - and is allowed to be -0.04deg to +0.22deg. Yours is -0.06deg. Not far off, but a long way from centre.

Steer ahead is how far off dead-straight the combined angle of the two wheels is. Obviously, dead-straight is ideal, and your car is allowed -0.03deg to +0.03deg. Your is way off, +0.22deg.

Yes, these look like tiny numbers, but they can have a big effect on tyre wear and on the way your car reacts to the steering.

molerat

Ermia said:

I actually feel like the tester litteraly didn't straighten my steering wheel, i.e., steering is pointing to the right. So wouldnt wheels be pointing to the right also, like they are? Has anyone ever taken a car in for tracking then to be told the wheels are straight?🤨

If both wheel point roughly 0.20 to the right, then the car is actually good already? 🤔

When checking they do not straighten the wheels, they let the steering find its natural resting place which in your case is slightly to the right.  If you try to drive in a straight line with your hands off the car will go to the right into the path of oncoming traffic so you are constantly having to correct that. When they adjust it they will fix the steering wheel straight ahead and adjust the wheels to that point.

Jenni_D

molerat said:

Ermia said:

I actually feel like the tester litteraly didn't straighten my steering wheel, i.e., steering is pointing to the right. So wouldnt wheels be pointing to the right also, like they are? Has anyone ever taken a car in for tracking then to be told the wheels are straight?🤨

If both wheel point roughly 0.20 to the right, then the car is actually good already? 🤔

When checking they do not straighten the wheels, they let the steering find its natural resting place which in your case is slightly to the right.  If you try to drive in a straight line with your hands off the car will go to the right into the path of oncoming traffic so you are constantly having to correct that. When they adjust it they will should fix the steering wheel straight ahead and adjust the wheels to that point.

Minor edit.  

peter3hg

Ermia said:

peter3hg said:

National Tyres have a permanent 50% promotion on front wheel alignment which makes it £15.
Well worth doing at that price.

https://www.national.co.uk/download-voucher/wheelalignment/

It caught my eyes, too. Nonetheless, national tyres have two issues based on these comments on HotUKDeals

1. Many reported that the NT garages refuse the discount with different excuses (e.g. "it doesn't apply to your car becaseu its system is different"). One could book online so that they can't refuse the job, but the online discount code has expired.
2. NT reportedly doesn't do the alignment correctly. "Just note that the steering wheel doesn't always get straightened. The one in Wembley always leave the bottom of steering wheel pointing at 7 o'clock where it should be at 6 o'clock."

It probably is very much branch dependent.

I've taken something like 10 bangers to my local branch over the years and never had any issues with them accepting the offer or with the actual work.
On one car they couldn't get the tie rods to move but they gave a full refund.

[Deleted User]

Very few places can get it bang on as it all depends how good the operator is. I paid a garage £25 in 2019 to do mine, while it was much better than what it was (steering wheel was at a 45 degree angle) it still wasn't 100%. I then paid ATS £40ish to do it again last year when I was there for some new tyres and it made no difference at all.

Richard53

facade said:

Richard53 said:

I'm no expert, but the units are degrees/minutes, so about a third of a degree in each case.  From what I can see, one front wheel is toe-out (negative number) and one is toe-in, which looks wrong.  AFAIK, they should be the same amount, and both either out or in.  If it's a FWD car, I think it should be toe-out on both wheels. I'd get it checked again and corrected, but I wouldn't be going to Kwik-Fit to get it done.

That is because they centre the steering wheel. Then they would adjust both wheels to the same (correct) toe-in so the car goes straight with the wheel straight.

(you would simply turn the wheel slightly now, and the toe would even up each side when the car goes straight- but modern cars have a steering wheel angle sensor, have the wheel too far off straight and the cars electronics get all offended)

The total toe is just outside the green limit, it could do with adjusting, but surely it doesn't cost £80!

I knew some expert would be along to correct me! In my defence, my knowledge of steering set-up is from the days of most cars being RWD and non-powered steering, where it was a simple matter of getting things pointing in the right direction.