Napier Parking - missed 1st letter

Fruitcake

alfrescom said:

Umkomaas said:

Within Napier's first letter to you, did it contain reference to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) and a (false) claim that they could hold you liable for the charge as the registered keeper?

There was no mention of that act at all. However it does mention "if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the Notice is given (i) the amount of the unpaid Parking charge specified in this Notice has not been paid in full, and (ii) we do not know the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, we will have the right to recover from you, so much of that Parking Charge as remains unpaid"

If you are the vehicle's keeper, the NTK is addressed to you, and you live in Scotland, the PPC has no such right (yet). You should complain to Napier, the IPC, the landowner, and your MP about this misrepresentation of Scottish law.

alfrescom

Le_Kirk said:

alfrescom said:

Fruitcake said:

Complain to the landowner and your MP about this unregulated industry. 
A vehicle keeper in Scotland cannot be held liable (yet) for a charge from a private parking company. The PPC may ask for the driver's identity, but that's as far as they are (currently) able to go.

I'm happy to write to my MP, thanks. Do I write back to the company though?

And if the PPC ask me for the drivers identity, do I have to provide it?

I refer you to @Coupon-mad's answer and to the NEWBIE sticky.

Thanks. I'll write to Napier parking then, as coupon mad suggested.

I did have a read through the Newbies sticky, especially the bit about living in Scotland, but it didn't seem to apply, as the car park wasn't at a store and i believe was on land that the company owns.

"IF THE EVENT TOOK PLACE IN SCOTLAND OR NORTHERN IRELAND, WE SUGGEST YOU DO (ALWAYS!) COMPLAIN TO STORE MANAGEMENT IF YOUR PCN IS FROM A RETAIL PARK, AND SEND THE USUAL TEMPLATE APPEAL FOR YOUR CASE, NOT SAYING WHO WAS DRIVING."

Thanks for taking the time to respond to me, appreciated 

Umkomaas

alfrescom said:

Umkomaas said:

Within Napier's first letter to you, did it contain reference to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) and a (false) claim that they could hold you liable for the charge as the registered keeper?

There was no mention of that act at all. However it does mention "if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the Notice is given (i) the amount of the unpaid Parking charge specified in this Notice has not been paid in full, and (ii) we do not know the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, we will have the right to recover from you, so much of that Parking Charge as remains unpaid"

They are misrepresenting their authority. They have no legal right to recover unpaid parking charges from a registered keeper in Scotland. This demands a complaint to the DVLA. PPCs have been suspended from data access for similar misrepresentations. 

Get the DVLA sniffing around is one sure way to get Napier to drop this like a hot potato!

ccrt@dvla.gov.uk

and

KADOEservice.support@dvla.gov.uk 

Send the same email complaint to both and ask that they investigate, then to inform you of the results and what sanctions they intend to impose. 

alfrescom

If you are the vehicle's keeper, the NTK is addressed to you, and you live in Scotland, the PPC has no such right (yet). You should complain to Napier, the IPC, the landowner, and your MP about this misrepresentation of Scottish law.

Yes, I'm the keeper, the NTK was addressed to me, and I live in Scotland.

I'll complain to all those groups, thanks. The landowner, I believe, is the same person/family who runs Napier Parking? Willen Lake in Milton Keynes

alfrescom

Umkomaas said:

They are misrepresenting their authority. They have no legal right to recover unpaid parking charges from a registered keeper in Scotland. This demands a complaint to the DVLA. PPCs have been suspended from data access for similar misrepresentations. 

Get the DVLA sniffing around is one sure way to get Napier to drop this like a hot potato!

ccrt@dvla.gov.uk

and

KADOEservice.support@dvla.gov.uk 

Send the same email complaint to both and ask that they investigate, then to inform you of the results and what sanctions they intend to impose. 

Thank you, I will do that tonight. 
Who are those email addresses for at DVLA, ccrt, and KADOEservice?

Thanks

Coupon-mad

But they are in the NEWBIES thread already.  This is nothing new we are telling you, it’s all in the advice thread (5th post has those complaint emails).

Don’t change the wording I suggested, it is specific to your case to make them go swivel and leave you alone.

In 2022 make sure your family know there will be keeper liability unless the Scottish Government realise their naive error in copying failed and very badly drafted English law, that causes misery to millions.

As it stands, your Government is committed to copying the dangerous power of keeper liability and making keepers liabie for mistakes of other drivers and sneaky tricks by parking firms.

I can predict PPCs will have a field day with Scottish keepers and drivers.

alfrescom

Coupon mad, and everyone else, thanks so much for all your help and advice, its really appreciated. I shall compose a letter to them and get it sent off.

Many thanks :-)

alfrescom

They are misrepresenting their authority. They have no legal right to recover unpaid parking charges from a registered keeper in Scotland. This demands a complaint to the DVLA. PPCs have been suspended from data access for similar misrepresentations. 

Get the DVLA sniffing around is one sure way to get Napier to drop this like a hot potato!

ccrt@dvla.gov.uk

and

KADOEservice.support@dvla.gov.uk 

Send the same email complaint to both and ask that they investigate, then to inform you of the results and what sanctions they intend to impose. 

I've had a reply from the DVLA complaints, they say that:

"I have investigated this with Napier Parking Ltd and can see that the incident occurred in XXXXX, England. Under The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) they cannot enforce for sites which are in Scotland or Northern Ireland. As the incident occurred on a site in England Napier Parking Ltd are able to use Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. As you were not the driver you would need to inform Napier Parking Ltd directly of this and disclose who the driver was."

So the DVLA is saying that I *do* have to disclose who the driver was?!

Redx

Except that the DVLA are wrong , there is no legal obligation for the keeper to name the driver !!

They can say that you should inform the claimant that you are not the driver on that day , if true , and that you may wish to name the driver to absolve yourself of any legal responsibility under POFA , especially if the claimant has complied with POFA

D_P_Dance

They say  ... that the fixed charge notice will increase to £160!!

They inform them thusly

They have added what appears to be an extra unlawful amount for debt collection. Judges have dismissed an entire claim because of this. Read this and complain to your MP.

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V Excel v Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0