Employer wants to know who is in a union / how many

Jillanddy

Savvy_Sue said:

And the latest is that the employer remains reluctant to recognise the union which represents those who have already joined a union, and is investigating officially recognising some other union ... Hoping we can force the issue before they do that - I assume they CAN do that??? I wouldn't necessarily know whether anyone was a member of some other union, I think mine is the best / obvious fit ...

They can voluntarily recognise any union they wish, but they cannot force you to join that union; and if membership enables statutory recognition, then members can force it - there is no requirement to recognise only one union. However it isn't really all that easy to give worthwhile advice in a vacuum. Union recognition is something of a red herring. It doesn't matter whether a union is recognised or not, or even if there is a union (although I am not suggesting there shouldn't be) - it is what the fight is about, whether people are willing to fight it, and how you win it. Nobody gets into a fight over union recognition - it is always about why people think they need to be in a union. 

Savvy_Sue

Thanks! There's an increasing number of members, and a collective grievance has gone in, so yes, I think the fight is on.

It's just a shame that what was an excellent employer has descended to the "Do as I say because I'm the boss, I'm right, and you're wrong if you disagree" mentality, shedding experienced staff in the process.

Jillanddy

Savvy_Sue said:

Thanks! There's an increasing number of members, and a collective grievance has gone in, so yes, I think the fight is on.

It's just a shame that what was an excellent employer has descended to the "Do as I say because I'm the boss, I'm right, and you're wrong if you disagree" mentality, shedding experienced staff in the process.

Ah. I didn't realise you were one of my staff! My own team is being cut to ribbons - my job is safe but only really because they are (a) unable to run it at all without me and (b) scared to death of me - and no matter how you cut it, it is now irrelevant whether they cut the team and make the workload impossible or now because everyone is looking for another job because they don't trust them at all now anyway 

You know that whole "nobody is indispensable" saying? Well unfortunately in my case (and my teams) it is actually true. We manage something that only 30 teams in the country can manage, it is totally niche knowledge, and it is coming to an end in 2023 so nobody will want to train to do it. So we really are indispensable, but our totally thick management have decided to dispense with half the staff!

Savvy_Sue

Doesn't sound exactly like my situation so I'm not one of your staff but you have my sympathy. :-)

I'm in the very fortunate position that if life becomes unbearable I could leave without having anything else lined up. A few less fortunate people have already done that. 

And if I gave a month's notice, that really would make life interesting. No, I'm not indispensible, but there's a fair chunk of my job which no-one else knows how to do, despite me withering on about how undesirable that situation is ...

elsien

Savvy_Sue said:

And the latest is that the employer remains reluctant to recognise the union which represents those who have already joined a union, and is investigating officially recognising some other union ... Hoping we can force the issue before they do that - I assume they CAN do that??? I wouldn't necessarily know whether anyone was a member of some other union, I think mine is the best / obvious fit ...

I do have a vague memory when my workplace was looking at unions that as part of the canvassing process we were given a choice of unions and asked which one we preferred. Which turned out to be academic because the number of people interested nationally was below the percentage necessary to force the employers hand so we ended up with no recognition at all. 

Jude57

Savvy_Sue said:

Doesn't sound exactly like my situation so I'm not one of your staff but you have my sympathy. :-)

I'm in the very fortunate position that if life becomes unbearable I could leave without having anything else lined up. A few less fortunate people have already done that. 

And if I gave a month's notice, that really would make life interesting. No, I'm not indispensible, but there's a fair chunk of my job which no-one else knows how to do, despite me withering on about how undesirable that situation is ...

Ah yes, I recognise that scenario. Once, I was the only person at my public sector employer who was legally authorised to carry out the work I did. I'd worked in the department for over a decade and, as we weren't allowed to use the flexi time credit we built up each month we were told it was 'banked' for future use. In all my time in that department, I never was able to use this banked time.

When I was head hunted by another department, I gave my one month notice on a Thursday and asked my senior management if they'd pay me for my banked time so I'd work the full month, since they refused, against normal practice, to release me early to my new department. They refused and so I replied that my last day would be the following Wednesday which they couldn't argue with. I did leave that Wednesday and it left them in the brown stuff. I offered to start early in my new job but my new boss insisted I take every minute of the time I was owed, bless him.

Jillanddy

Jude57 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Doesn't sound exactly like my situation so I'm not one of your staff but you have my sympathy. :-)

I'm in the very fortunate position that if life becomes unbearable I could leave without having anything else lined up. A few less fortunate people have already done that. 

And if I gave a month's notice, that really would make life interesting. No, I'm not indispensible, but there's a fair chunk of my job which no-one else knows how to do, despite me withering on about how undesirable that situation is ...

Ah yes, I recognise that scenario. Once, I was the only person at my public sector employer who was legally authorised to carry out the work I did. I'd worked in the department for over a decade and, as we weren't allowed to use the flexi time credit we built up each month we were told it was 'banked' for future use. In all my time in that department, I never was able to use this banked time.

When I was head hunted by another department, I gave my one month notice on a Thursday and asked my senior management if they'd pay me for my banked time so I'd work the full month, since they refused, against normal practice, to release me early to my new department. They refused and so I replied that my last day would be the following Wednesday which they couldn't argue with. I did leave that Wednesday and it left them in the brown stuff. I offered to start early in my new job but my new boss insisted I take every minute of the time I was owed, bless him.

Hilarious.  Mine is public sector too. Like Savvy Sue, I can afford to walk away.  I am hanging on for two things.  One is to get my entire team including the ones they want to keep out of the door.  The other is to be able to say "I told your so and f***you" in my resignation letter.  Literally. Because this is my last job, I have my full pension,  assets,  and the only reason I'm here at all was because I told my previous decent manager that I'd see the job out.  Screw that - he was made redundant last year!

Anyone who thinks the public sector is easy really hasn't worked in it. 

Jude57

Oh I feel for you, Jill. I was fortunate enough to leave the public sector and have a late career change. Then I got the opportunity to retire early just as my health became a concern. I'm much better health wise and so glad I'm done with the stress and strain of work. If I could find a nice, undemanding part time job I might consider it but otherwise that's me done. I wish being a file clerk was still a thing, sitting in a little office meticulously punching and filing. Sigh.

It's a real shame that you, @Savvy_Sue and I can't set up an advisory service for the under-appreciated. Oh, hang on......!

I hope your exit strategy goes to plan - I'd say you'll deserve it! 

Jillanddy

Jude57 said:

Oh I feel for you, Jill. I was fortunate enough to leave the public sector and have a late career change. Then I got the opportunity to retire early just as my health became a concern. I'm much better health wise and so glad I'm done with the stress and strain of work. If I could find a nice, undemanding part time job I might consider it but otherwise that's me done. I wish being a file clerk was still a thing, sitting in a little office meticulously punching and filing. Sigh.

It's a real shame that you, @Savvy_Sue and I can't set up an advisory service for the under-appreciated. Oh, hang on......!

I hope your exit strategy goes to plan - I'd say you'll deserve it! 

Well they could try to sack me.  That didn't go so well for the last one who tried.  Which they know.... can't figure out why they are so scared of me. But I'm looking forward to (a) them trying and more likely (b) retiring,  leaving the country and spending time in the sun with my grandchildren 

Savvy_Sue

And the brown stuff has started to hit the revolving thing ...

Won't say more ...

As it happens, I saw what looks like a lovely job I could do, fewer hours, not a bad location. I wouldn't have to get another job if it became unbearable, but that's tempting!