Euro Car Parks - Charge Notice (Council Land): ignore?

Longford

Hi Everyone,

It's been a while since I've recieved a PCN. And this forum has been super helpful previously.

I recently parked at a local park owned by the County Council. I tried to pay to park using an app advertised on the signage. It said it would be easy or effortless (something like that). The app would not recognise the location from GPS or manual entry.  I complained to the lady working at the cafe there - she laughed and said don't worry you have until midnight.  I completely forgot about it.  A week later Euro Car Parks sent me a Parking Charge Notice for £70.  £40 if paid within 14 days.  It's one of these number plate recognition things.

In the past the advice was just to ignore these.

Is that still right?

TIA.

J

Coupon-mad

No, read the NEWBIES thread. All is explained there and if this is a council owned park then you can win based on lack of keeper liability, as long as you don’t go saying who was driving.

Longford

Coupon-mad said:

No, read the NEWBIES thread. All is explained there and if this is a council owned park then you can win based on lack of keeper liability, as long as you don’t go saying who was driving.

Thanks. I did look at the newbie thread... so much information! I'll take another look.

KeithP

Where exactly did this parking event take place?
Has this place been mentioned before on this forum?

Longford

@KeithP no, this hasn't been mentioned before.

A country park in Kent.

@co@Coupon-mad I'm still confused.. Although it's council property, the PCN is from Euro Car Parks. So, is the driver point still valid?

Umkomaas

Although it's council property, the PCN is from Euro Car Parks. So, is the driver point still valid? 

Probably, as long as you can obtain proof that it is council land, but even then it won't be simple; they'll fight tooth and nail for your money, leaving you to fend it off at every pass.  This is not for ignoring. 

Please give us the name of the country park; there may well be intel somewhere on the forum. 

Longford

@Umkomaas

https://www.kent.gov.uk/leisure-and-community/kent-country-parks/manor-park-country-park

Kent County Council purchased the park, including the car park,  in 1973.

Euro Car Parks have only recently became involved.

KeithP

Longford said:

@KeithP no, this hasn't been mentioned before.

A country park in Kent.

You are mistaken.

Manor Park Country Park was mentioned in this thread;
ECP popla stage help

And this post on that thread mentions the same link that you do.

Longford said:

Euro Car Parks have only recently became involved.

I suppose it depends upon how you define 'recently'.
According to that earlier thread, ECP were already there by June 2018.

KeithP

Also have a look at this recent thread:
County Court Claim From Civil Enforcement Ltd - £277 for 55 mins parking!!

...in particular, this post by @Castle ...

Castle said:

This is on the LGO Website; (ref 17004169):-
17 004 169 - Local Government and Social Care Ombudsman

That report by the LGO is dated November 2018 and recommended...

Recommendations

31. To remedy the injustice identified in this report the Council has agreed to carry out the following actions:

• pay Mr X £100 for time and trouble within one month; and

• stop issuing parking penalties at Lullingstone Country Park and at its other parks that use the same process, until it has put in place appropriate arrangements.

Disappointing to see this is still not fixed.

Coupon-mad

Local authorities can’t operate their public car parks as if they were private land and nor can they use ANPR cameras.  It’s banned for Local Authorities and they can’t let private firms do that for them.

This is discussed on that other recent thread about Swanley park (doesn’t matter that it’s a different park, we are telling you that this issue has been discussed and there is info you need to read).

Longford

SUCCESSFUL POPLA APPEAL (well, Euro Car Parks did not contest)

Here's what happened:

* I realised that the driver had paid to park but for the wrong car in the household.

* I wrote to Euro and explained the driver had paid to park but used the wrong VRN.

* I also pointed out that the land is owned by Kent County Council (KCC)  and is, therefore, exclude from the 'recovery of unpaid parking charges' under Schedule 4, Section 3 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

> Euro Car Parks responded and said the incorrct keying of the VRN number meant the ticket still stands.

> The car park in question is patrolled on foot as well as by ANPR.

> The ticket still stand but they will let the matter rest if I paid a £20 admin fee (otherwise lots of threats).

> My appeal with Euro has come to an end, I can appeal to POPLA and Euro does not recognise the Ombudsman.

* I appealed to POPLA.

* Said land owned by KCC, therefore, excluded.

* Also pointed our link from KCC to Euro appeals page sent me to a blank webpage.

* Said I was appalled that Euro does not recognise the Ombudsman when KCC is a local authority and therefore it is my right to complain to the Local Government Ombudsman.

Three days later...

"Thank you for submitting your parking charge appeal to POPLA

An appeal has been opened with the reference XXXXXX.

Euro Car Parks - EW have told us they do not wish to contest the appeal. This means that your appeal is successful and you do not need to pay the parking charge."

Thank you for your help!