PPC NTK - Advice re POPLA Appeal: Civil Enforcement - Custom House Quay - Falmouth

NiJella

Dear Forumers

I have read the vast amount of helpful information on the NEWBIES thread, thank you, I am still left with some questions.

BELOW MY QUESTIONS IS THE APPEAL I SENT WHICH EXPLAINS HOW I CAME TO RECEIVE THIS PCN.

MY QUESTIONS:

1. Payment was made

I sent them (PPC) an excerpt of the bank statement showing payment. Do POPLA look favourably upon those who can demonstrate a willingness to pay?

I also sent them (PPC) a screen shot of the text message from them confirming parking was paid for.

The charge is for the time period 13:53 - 16.21 which as the parking paid was 2 hours, there is a lapse of 28 minutes, which as I explained above was actually their fault, the late confirmation text from them etc.

They of course rejected my appeal and sent the POPLA code.

    2. No keeper liability

Having read the NEWBIE thread it would seem that I may be able to argue the point about 'no keeper liability' as the PCN seems to be a non-POFA type PCN. 

I could potentially use the template kindly provided by the Forumers in relation to this as the PCN is dated 16/08/2021 and the incident date is 5/07/2021 so straight off the bat they have exceeded the 14 days within which they should have written to the registered keeper as there was no notice on the vehicle. 

Furthermore they have not shown that the individual that they are pursuing (me) is in fact liable for the charge. 

I am double checking that I am going along the right line of thinking with this, I don't want to get it wrong.

All of this information on the forum seemed to mainly relate to PE - the PE 'Golden Ticket.' Will it still stand for Civil Enforcement?

   3. Carpark on marine land subject to by-laws

Lastly, I actually beat this company on behalf of my partner who received a NTK a couple years back in the same carpark (I know, stop parking there right!) Anyway, he just didn't pay because he just didn't realise, thought it was a pub carpark. With the help of this AMAZING forum, we won by discovering that the car park is on a quay, which is marine land subject to by-laws. I went into detail with this in my POPLA appeal to eventually win on the grounds that the (PPC) did not prove that they had the legal right in accordance with the marine by-laws etc to charge any money for that land, POPLA agreed, it was an epic day!

My final question here is, should I also throw that into the POPLA appeal? Do I go all guns blazing and hit them with everything at this point?

MANY THANKS.

Here is the original appeal I sent to the PPC (Civil Enforcement) which outlines my defence:

I am writing to you as the registered keeper of the vehicle and not the driver.

 

When we arrived I telephoned the number displayed on the parking payment instruction board.

I registered my details including my vehicle and card payment, the recorded message advised that I would receive a text message and that my parking session would be confirmed once I replied to the text message.

We waited in my vehicle for a few minutes for the text message to arrive, it did not come through.

 

Aware that the waiting was eating into the parking time, we headed into Trago Mills where we were visiting the Crows Nest Café for lunch.

Trago Mills is a large store laid out over several floors. The Crow’s Nest Café is situated at the very top of the building.

 

My partner was post-operative and on crutches, because of this we moved slowly through the store to reach the café on the top floor.

I continually checked my phone and had still not received a text message regarding the parking session by the time we arrived in the café.

We ordered lunch and as we sat at our table a text finally came through.

I replied to the text and received another text to say that my session had not been validated, very frustrating and annoying.

 

With my lunch now going cold I telephoned a number displayed on the side of a commercial vehicle (that I could see from my vantage point at the top of the building) that had parked behind my vehicle and I spoke to the driver. 

 

I explained my situation and asked him for the location ID of the carpark as I could not remember it and was quite far away from the board, being at the very top of Trago Mills.

The man kindly gave me the location ID.

 

I telephoned the parking payment line again and went through the whole process again.

This time I received a text message to confirm the parking session.

 

£2.60 was debited from the bank to pay for the parking. Please see attached bank statement.

Please also see attached screen shot of the text message I received confirming that parking had been paid for.

I also sent a voice note to my Mum later that day, once home, and told her about the palaver with the parking, explaining exactly what I have written above. This recorded statement is time stamped from 5th July 2021 at 19.04. I am happy to provide this upon request as further evidence that I did indeed pay for parking on this date.

 

Lastly I took a photograph of my vehicle along with the commercial vehicle parked behind it, I am also happy to provide this along with my telephone record showing both the telephone call to the driver of the commercial vehicle, asking for his help as described above, and of the multiple calls to your parking payment line to pay for the parking.

****

Coupon-mad

POFA issue wins it only as long as your first appeal didn’t blow it by blabbing about being the driver and parking and what happened.

NiJella

Coupon-mad said:

POFA issue wins it only as long as your first appeal did t blow it by blabbing about being the driver and parking and what happened.

Thank you. I must admit that my first appeal is, on reflection, a bit rich with the word 'I'.

'I' registered my vehicle and 'I' paid for parking etc, I really hope this won't cause me issue. I paid for parking and dealt with that but not necessarily as the driver.

Coupon-mad

That throws the winning point in the bin, sadly. That wording makes it obvious you were driving IMHO.  Happens all the time, very frustrating that people rush to appeal and don’t come here first.

Never mind. No paying it, carry on anyway.

D_P_Dance

Have you complained to your MP?

fisherjim

I assume you are talking about this honeytrap surely not relevant land if so:

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/falmouth-car-park-fine-custom-575103

NiJella

D_P_Dance said:

Have you complained to your MP?

No, but I absolutely will, thank you.

NiJella

fisherjim said:

I assume you are talking about this honeytrap surely not relevant land if so:

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/falmouth-car-park-fine-custom-575103

FisherJim...you legend! I didn't not even know about this, I have not seen it! Thank you.

When you say, "not relevant land if so," what do you mean?

How can I use this article and info to help me win with POPLA do you think?

Cheers

NiJella

Coupon-mad said:

That throws the winning point in the bin, sadly. That wording makes it obvious you were driving IMHO.  Happens all the time, very frustrating that people rush to appeal and don’t come here first.

Never mind. No paying it, carry on anyway.

Oh don't say that you heartbreaker. 

Please could you give my first appeal a quick whizz through with that super magic brain of yours (that I am still in awe of from when you helped me kick these guys squarely in the nuts previously!) 

Original appeal is above, in my original post. 

Could you let me know how you think I should best proceed with the POPLA appeal?

Thank you.

Coupon-mad

Just popping out to an appointment 

NiJella

Coupon-mad said:

Just popping out to an appointment 

Thank you, no rush my friend, whenever you can would be immensely appreciated.

Just to clarify, I wasn't actually the driver, and the fact is there is no wording relating to POFA on the NTK, AND they sent it weeks after the date of offence, so surely we can go with this, in addition to the fact that I did actually pay for parking.

Many thanks.