Elderly Blue badge holder court case £277 for 14 minute drop off at rear of train station...

tiga456

By way of introduction

My elderly father (80 years old at time of PCN) blue badge holder dropped off a passenger at a 'Stop Shop' (retail / rail?) car park enforced by UK CPM at the rear of Clapham Junction Train Station, London in Dec 2018. On the PCN related photos it shows my Dad was there for 14 minutes. As I understand a week before the PCN the car park recently changed the rules, no longer allowing free drop off's for Disabled / Blue badge holders - as my father always parked within the 'grace period' without PCN's as I understand.There was no prior notice and poor signage.

Thinking we had a strong case we did the IAS appeal paying £15 to be told that the appeal was not good enough....and CPM / Gladstones continued sending letters.

That's when did some research on these forums and originally wrote to National Rail - (whom i presumed was the owner of the land but never replied).

Then came along Covid pandemic and it went a bit quiet so we 'let sleeping dogs lie' ...But recently the Claimant has brought the case to Small claims court (MCOL).

Claimant

UK Car Park Management Limited

Amount Claimed

£192.78

Court Fee

£35.00

Solicitor Costs

£50.00

Total Amount

£277.78

Issue Date

03/08/2021

 

So reading up again i recently wrote to 'stop shop clapham junction' who replied quite quickly and said would contact the relevant people.

Filed the defense on 6th Sept by e-mail. Today received an e-mail from Gladstones with Directions Questionnaire  ;

[is it ok to post a quote here?]

"We act for the Claimant and have notified the Court of the Claimant’s intention to proceed with the Claim.

Please find enclosed a copy of the Claimant’s completed Directions Questionnaire, which has also been filed with the Court.

You will note the Claimant has elected to mediate in an attempt to settle this matter amicably, without the need for further Court intervention. Should you agree to mediation, please inform the Court who will contact both parties to arrange a mediation appointment."

Is this normal that Gladstones ask for mediation?

I think i read somewhere to ignore their DQ but submit my own DQ when court gets in touch (by e-mail / post?)

Thanks for your support and any tips, Cheers

KeithP

There are a few issues here...

1) by paying for the £15 IAS appeal the appellant agreed to be legally bound by the outcome.

2) so a Defence has been filed. Can you please show us that Defence? Note that there is no letter 's' in the word Defence.

3) Bargepole's 'what happens when' post linked from the second post of the NEWIES thread explains why mediation is not a good idea.

Redx

Plus the reps 6 to 9 in the coupon mad Defence template in announcements also tell you about this stage , as well as the 5 years old what happens when post by member Bargepole

Everybody receives that letter and DQ from Gladrags , and have done for many years

tiga456

KeithP said:

There are a few issues here...

1) by paying for the £15 IAS appeal the appellant agreed to be legally bound by the outcome.

oh dear...legally bound to the outcome of the appeal? So my Dad's chances of winning the claim are diminished?

2) so a Defence has been filed. Can you please show us that Defence? Note that there is no letter 's' in the word Defence.

hmm...Defensce was mainly based on the template from this forum. Unfortunately we left the defence to the last minute (literally) and this part must have got stuck in my head:

3. Your Defence does not need to be War and Peace, but it must mention, however briefly,  every point of fact and law that you intend to rely on. You won't be able to amend it or add extra points later

So it is largely a ramble repeating many points about poor signage. Do you want me to post it here? (bit shy / embarassing TBH)

3) Bargepole's 'what happens when' post linked from the second post of the NEWIES thread explains why mediation is not a good idea.

Awesome thanks was looking for that post

Cheers

Redx

Yes , post the defence here , but only the paragraphs you changed , typically 2 & 3 , not the rest , but warts and all

The war and peace comes at the WS stage in several months time

95Rollers

Was it actually on Railway property as if so I believe that POFA might not apply as its subject to railway byelaws. I have used this station a few times, but usually come out thr front onto the high street so wasn't aware of any carparks apart from the big Asda round there. If you can get nsvk there there should be signage saying if its railway land.  My friend had an unfair railway carpark PCN quashed based on the fact that it was not POFA compliant.  Find out who land is owned by.

EDIT: just seen there is another post here relating to UKCPM at Clapham Junction which you should check out,

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6273312/pcn-clapham-junction-overground-anpr-by-uk-cpm-gladstones#latest

tiga456

ok here goes, take a deep breath....

The facts as known to the Defendant:

2.       It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of the vehicle in question but liability is denied. 

 

3.  The Defendant is an eighty-three year old Blue Badge holder and had a Blue Badge on display. This PCN was issued for a stay of 14 minutes in a car park at the rear of Clapham Junction train station. The Defendant states that until one week before the PCN was initiated there has been, for a long period of time, a grace period allowing free pick up / drop off for Blue Badge holders.

As the Defendant understands charging was suddenly automatically implemented for all vehicles as soon as they drove into the parking area and this was changed without prior, sufficient or clear notice.

The signage was not clear, there was no safe, free or way to stop and read the signs without driving inside (or stopping on double red or yellow lines) and unwittingly entering into a contract with the Claimant.

At the time of the PCN there was just a sticker by what is presumed to be the Blue Badge bay but the sign looked temporary and simply stated 'Normal Charges apply'. In the Defendants opinion this is an ambiguous statement and surely means different things to different people. Blue Badge holders 'normally' park for free especially during a short stay / drop off / grace period. One could also understand that charges would apply once the normal drop off / grace period had expired, or that the charges were ‘as normal’- as had been up until this time – ie. free for Blue Badge holders.

Perhaps the Claimant should have removed the Blue Badge sign entirely if (their idea of) ‘normal charges’ applied? One in a hurry could easily mistake it for being free parking for badge holders as normal. Likewise the Defendant does not understand what the purpose is of any Blue Badge sign if ‘normal charges apply’ (whatever that means) especially if complicated Ticket machines and parking terms and conditions (in small print) are not close by to the Disabled bay.

Furthermore on the wall by the entrance to the car park, by double yellow and double red lines on the road, there was a sign that said in capital letters large print

"ACCESS TO SHOPSTOP & CLAPHAM JUNCTION TRAIN STATION
 AND
STATION DROP OFF & PICK UP POINT”

A lay person may easily understand that ‘Drop off and Pick up point’ normally indicates a grace period of reasonable amount of time eg. 15 – 20 minutes.

Indeed being a Blue Badge holder the Defendant has parked at this Clapham Junction Train Station car park many times prior to this charge without incurring any penalties and without having to use a phone application / ticket machine or to make a call. Having to walk to read signage, to use a complicated ticket machine, tech savvy smartphone application, or call a phone number is not always so convenient or easy for the Elderly / Disabled (especially when one is catching a train) so they should be clearly visible, easy to use and as close as possible to the Disabled user’s bay as possible.

The Defendants son confirms that a representative of the Claimant confirmed that the car park was indeed free to use for Blue Badge holders until 07/12/2018 (one week before this PCN was initiated). This change in policy was not clearly marked, and no advance notice was given as the Defendant regularly used the car park so would have seen the signs.

Being of the opinion that the parking charge notice was unlawful the Defendant appealed online with the help of his son via the Claimant’s ‘Independent Appeals Service’ (IAS). The PCN arrived only after 21 days had passed (during Christmas period), and the Claimant had not uploaded the PCN information to their appeals system database (until the Claimant / IAS was contacted by the Defendants son) and then the Defendant had to pay a non-refundable £15 appellant fee to make an appeal!

On the internet there is information that the Claimant’s ‘Independent Appeals Service’ (IAS) appeal service does not seem to be so Independent as they may wish to appear, and that along with the Independent Parking Community (IPC) do not seem to have a very good reputation of being so reasonable or fair. Furthermore the Defendant feels harassed by the letters generated from the Claimant and from the Claimant’s solicitors (Gladstone’s Solictors) over the years demanding boldly more and more payment (from £60.00 to £100.00 to £160.00 in a short time and now more due to this claim) for a short drop off within a reasonable grace period for Blue Badge holder over the age of 80.

The Defendant and his son’s have spent considerable time discussing, appealing, writing, researching and preparing the case in an effort to defend this case, as in their opinion the lack of goodwill, integrity and justice served by the Claimant, their Solicitor’s (judging by their reputation online) and their ‘Independent’ Appeal Service (IAS) truly seems appalling and the unclear signage is terribly ambiguous and misleading. In some cases it would be easier to give in but sometimes one has to stand up and defend oneself on principle especially when this type of, (in the Defendants opinion and many others) unethical practice seems to be affecting so many innocent people in the United Kingdom.

 

4.

Redx

If the driver was admitted , then POFA is a non starter , the defendant is defending as an admitted driver

The blue badge may have no legal meaning , but the Equality Act 2010 does , many people don't understand the importance of difference , but the blue booklet defines what the BB is for , the EA 2010 protects people regardless of a blue badge or not

Half_way

Thinking we had a strong case we did the IAS appeal paying £15 to be told that the appeal was not good enough....and CPM / Gladstones continued sending letters.

That's when did some research on these forums and originally wrote to National Rail - (whom i presumed was the owner of the land but never replied).

The IPC/IAS are nothing more than a sham, somewhere on here is a thread all about William hurley/the IAS, Gladstones/the IPC etc and you should read it, as you may be able to use the information in that to show that you have been well and truly led up the garden path

As RedX has said the blue badge may have no meaning but the Equality act most certainly does, again this is something you can and should use against the landowner who allowed the scum pakring company to operate on their land

The owner/landholder of the car park will either be network rail, or the train operating company, where was this car park? 

 

Coupon-mad

 I suspect any Judge worth their salt would be prepared to ignore a so called 'legally binding' IAS kangaroo court outcome, if the Defenant in their evidence (later) showed their Blue Badge and th IAS Annual Report, showing that they only upheld 4% of appeals last year, and they appear to ignore the Equality Act 2010.  This is why the Government is replacing the self-serving 'appeals' farce systems operated by this industry.

Carry on!

tiga456

Half_way said:

As RedX has said the blue badge may have no meaning but the Equality act most certainly does, again this is something you can and should use against the landowner who allowed the scum pakring company to operate on their land

The owner/landholder of the car park will either be network rail, or the train operating company, where was this car park? 

@Half_way

Thanks for the tips,

Need to check the land owner.

"where was this car park? "

- At the rear of Clapham Junction, back entrance to shops and platforms i believe. Same car park as mentioned by @tealover123 in his thread ie.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78386491/#Comment_78386491

FR7J+H9 London

Clapham Junction Approach, London SW11 2QP

lat 51.464556, long -0.168687
OS GRID REF TQ272756

- Regarding the Equality act 2010 how would i use it in this case / against the land owner?

Thanks