Dismissal Appeal Request

Austin0710

@General_Grant They were records that were used for an external audit - it was sign off for work reviewed that was not actually completed.

Is it fair that I have been dismissed but the another employee had no sanctions or even an investigation started even after they admitted it too?

@Dakta
Yes, I'm planning for my next role and i'll probably look back in the future and this could turn into a positive move for me. 

Dakta

"Yes, I'm planning for my next role and i'll probably look back in the future and this could turn into a positive move for me. "

I hope so. The world isn't a level playing field and one person might seem to get away with doing something wrong where another doesn't, it's something we probably all experience at one point the best defence is to maintain integrity because its just best not to go there.

Not to sound like a lecturer, but I think you'll get more positivity from focusing on the next than throwing the kitchen sink at trying to appeal to the hearts of what appears like a corrupt bunch anyway.

Jillanddy

Austin0710 said:

oh_really said:

What does the disciplinary policy have to say on the matter?
I would expect a hearing to be convened with a new chair. Was the original chair also involved in the investigation?

Inform HR your reasons are an attempt to ensure the process is as free from contamination as possible, and you expect to get a fair hearing without external pressures.

What is your case that wasn't raised at the original hearing (no point in rehashing the original hearing), or are you arguing flawed process?

Were you guilty of gross misconduct?

Thanks for your response.

I have been dismissed for falsification of records.
I'm basing my appeal on the fact that the decision was too harsh.
Other members of staff have falsified the exact same records with no punishment - not even an investigation. Occurances have also been covered up by management too!

I am afraid that in legal terms, you have little or no possible case. Even with proof positive of what happened to others, that is all entirely irrelevant in law. The only thing that matters is your situation. You obviously did falsify records. That is certainly an offence that falls within the scope of a reasonable outcome being dismissal. It doesn't mean it must be. It means it can be. In your case it was. Not even a tribunal could look at whether or not your case was proportionate in relation to others - they will not consider that for one minute. I am afraid that this simply underlines the fact that if you think your manager / employer doesn't like you, don't give them ammunition. Personally I would concentrate on trying to repair your career by finding another job. 

Undervalued

Austin0710 said:

@General_Grant They were records that were used for an external audit - it was sign off for work reviewed that was not actually completed.

Is it fair that I have been dismissed but the another employee had no sanctions or even an investigation started even after they admitted it too?

@Dakta
Yes, I'm planning for my next role and i'll probably look back in the future and this could turn into a positive move for me. 

I agree with @Jillanddy in their post above.

In answer to the paragraph I have highlighted, it may be fair. You don't know the full circumstances and you almost certainly have no right to the information. It may even be that no action was taken because they admitted it at the first opportunity.

You admit that you were "guilty".

Falsification of records is certainly an offence for which a "reasonable employer" may consider dismissal, even for a first offence. As I explained in my earlier post, that is the legal test.

There is no automatic right to be treated the same as another employee unless the actual reason amounts to unlawful discrimination on one of the few legally protected grounds (e.g gender, race, religion etc). I assume that doesn't apply.

Sorry, maybe too late now, but your best option was to have admitted your behaviour promptly, apologised profusely and promised it would never happen again. If you did all that then it is perhaps unfortunate it wasn't enough but that is not the same as unlawful.

Even if somebody is out to get you, it doesn't mean they can't take action when you hand it to them on plate!

TELLIT01

Austin0710 said:

The manager named on my appeal is not my direct line manager, but has been involved in my case from the start, I believe this means she’s not impartial. 

I’m asking for another manager from a different department to view the evidence and chair my appeal as they would be impartial.

The simple fact that a manager has been involved in the case from the start does not mean they are not impartial.  However, any appeal should not be conducted by any of those involved in the original decision.

Undervalued

TELLIT01 said:

Austin0710 said:

The manager named on my appeal is not my direct line manager, but has been involved in my case from the start, I believe this means she’s not impartial. 

I’m asking for another manager from a different department to view the evidence and chair my appeal as they would be impartial.

The simple fact that a manager has been involved in the case from the start does not mean they are not impartial.  However, any appeal should not be conducted by any of those involved in the original decision.

Ideally yes of course but sometimes that is not possible, particularly in a small firm.

However it may be a moot point. Obviously if the appeal is upheld then fine, the OP has their job back but with presumably a final waring. However very few internal appeals are upheld.

Assuming it is not upheld then yes, the OP may be able to argue at a tribunal that the procedure was unfair and could quite possibly win. However that only gets them so far. There are no longer any automatic awards for procedural errors. Any compensation would be reduced, quite possibly all the way to zero, to take account of the OP's "guilt" of the actual offence.

The tribunal can't give them their job back. Well, theoretically they can order reinstatement but there is no mechanism to force the firm to take them back beyond a small amount of compensation. So, firms almost always refuse.

Yes, if they win they could tell a potential future employer that a tribunal ruled they were unfairly dismissed. Whether that helps in securing another job is debatable.

Thrugelmir

Austin0710 said:

I have evidence that my outcome was not proportionate in regards to other offences that have occurred.

Are you intending to call these people as witnesses in your defence? 

lincroft1710

Austin0710 said:

@General_Grant They were records that were used for an external audit - it was sign off for work reviewed that was not actually completed.

Is it fair that I have been dismissed but the another employee had no sanctions or even an investigation started even after they admitted it too?

If these other falsifications happened before yours, it gives management more ammunition in that you did something wrong in the full knowledge it was wrong. 


I would personally forget this appeal. You were guilty, dismissal is permissible, the employer does not have to treat you the same as other employees 

68ComebackSpecial

Rather than putting your employer's back up further by appealing with a vanishingly small chance of success I would be making fulsome  apologies and asking if they would agree to provide you with a basic reference which makes no mention of your disciplinary and dismissal. This is likely to be the best outcome you could pursue.

Jude57

Thrugelmir said:

Austin0710 said:

I have evidence that my outcome was not proportionate in regards to other offences that have occurred.

Are you intending to call these people as witnesses in your defence? 

An excellent question. I think it could be guaranteed that the people concerned, if still with the same employer, will refuse to do so. Any people no longer with the same employer are unlikely to be allowed to be involved in an internal appeal and would be a sitting duck for the employer's counsel at a tribunal, even if they were willing to testify.