PCN appeal - is it worth challenging

rowyourboat123

Hi all, 

I have been reading through all the advice given on this forum regarding appealing a PCN issued by Armtrac and I just wondered what your thoughts were on whether we stand a chance of winning or if to just bow out now. 

The story goes : we parked in said car park and paid for 5 hours via the just park app, we went off to enjoy our day when the app then failed to allow us to extend our booking. The only other option we had was to create a new booking to which the app kept faulting and not taking payment at the final stage. This continued for 32 minutes (highly stressful). The booking finally went through in which I ensured I overpaid paying for 3 hours to ensure we covered any lapse in time between the two bookings. We ultimately paid for 8 hours and stayed for 7 hours 47 minutes making sure we left in plenty of time. Armtrac have already denied our initial appeal as they state that they cannot allow mitigating circumstances as we parked for 32 minutes without a valid ticket (the time it took for the app they recommend their customers to use, not working). I spoke to Just park and they said to appeal the PCN directly with Armtrac (apologised there was an issue but didn't really accept liability or blame for the app not working and causing the PCN being generated). We understand their point of view but £60-£100 charge for 32 minutes is extreme considering we actually paid for longer than we stayed on purpose to try and avoid a PCN. 

I have read through the newbies link and can see the general consensus is not to bother with an appeal to IAS but before it goes further I would just like your educated opinions on this case and whether it can be challenged or not to bother. 

Many thanks for reading  

Redx

The typical £100 default daily tariff has been around for a decade and almost impossible to challenge since the Barry Beavis case 6 years ago , so no point arguing on that basis , not for 32 minutes or 32 hours !!

So back to the core issues

You attempted to pay to extend the contract , but your actions were frustrated by the payment method , frustration of contract

Eventually you paid , paying more over 2 payments than the time on site , so fully paid , so not bilking , an honest intention to make amends and by paying in full , the claimant received payment in full , so de minimis , a trivial matter

The Claimant is imposing a penalty for the in between stage , so the penalty rule is engaged , so not the same as Beavis where it wasn't a penalty at all

The claimant has accepted the payments , so has accepted the contract to park for the full duration paid for , so de minimis

I would fight them in court on the basis of the above !!  I would not pay unless a judge said so

D_P_Dance

I agree, judges are not fools.

Coupon-mad

We now say try IAS anyway.

Some PPCs duck out but if not, you know it’s a kangaroo court, so no surprise if Armtrac continue and your ‘appeal’ (I use that word loosely) is inevitably declined. Play the game and. CERTAINLY no paying these ex clampers!

rowyourboat123

Thanks for the advice everyone. Just so daunting not knowing if I have a legal leg to stand on or if I’m going to end up increasing the amount I will end up having to pay by challenging it. It is so frustrating having to go through all this for a mistake that wasn’t my own and in good faith was remedied to the best of my abilities. 

Are there any specific terms I can use in my appeal to the IAS  that could get them on board? Or is it just likely they will reject it and off to court it goes?

TIA

Redx

Use some of what I mentioned , plus the CRA 2015 , it will look better in court if brought up in court in the future

You can but try , it's either IAS , court , or IAS & court

People on here would expect that you have a good case and Defence , for the record

Coupon-mad

The IAS is all about evidence and not about any template words.  You could look at the signage terms and check if there is a term that says that you can get a PCN for this...I.e. do you have to pay within x minutes or ‘at any time’ or is the sign silent about any such contractual obligation?

Le_Kirk

rowyourboat123 said:

Thanks for the advice everyone. Just so daunting not knowing if I have a legal leg to stand on or if I’m going to end up increasing the amount I will end up having to pay by challenging it. It is so frustrating having to go through all this for a mistake that wasn’t my own and in good faith was remedied to the best of my abilities. 

Are there any specific terms I can use in my appeal to the IAS  that could get them on board? Or is it just likely they will reject it and off to court it goes?

It is not a mistake!  It is a failure of the equipment/systems provided by or contracted by Armtrac, therefore as the system was provided by others it cannot be a mistake or your fault.  Go for them in the appeal!

rowyourboat123

Will do! I will no doubt be asking for more advice at the next stage considering the success rate of appeals to IAS are slim to none. 

Coupon-mad said:

The IAS is all about evidence and not about any template words.  You could look at the signage terms and check if there is a term that says that you can get a PCN for this...I.e. do you have to pay within x minutes or ‘at any time’ or is the sign silent about any such contractual obligation?

Sadly I am not local to the car park in question so haven’t got access to their signage unfortunately. That would’ve been a good argument to have lead with. 

Umkomaas

If you post up the name of the car park and its location, there may well be 'previous'. There could be archive photos somewhere on the forum. 

rowyourboat123

Hi, I have managed to find the following signs relevant to the carp park, but nothing regarding the Justpark App which is the method of payment we used. They have edited the sign by hand on the image taken a couple of years back to reflect the fact it isn't a fine but a £100 PCN so who knows if they have edited it further since.