Cost Of Placing Estate In Trust

norm27

Hello. A few years ago I placed my Estate (House,Property and Savings) in Trust for the benefit of my two sons, one of whom is disabled, upon my death. I did this through a Solicitor specialising in such matters. It cost me £3000 and I have always been amazed at such a high cost when what I got was clearly just a standard 20 page pro forma with various blank sections to insert the details particular to me - Trustees, Witnesses, Property Details, Savings Account Details etc. Unless I am missing something I reckon there couldn't have been much more than a few hours' work for the Solicitor in completing the document - and probably a junior clerk at that.. I know that I paid for the expertise in the document, but even so it did seem expensive.

My question is - now that I have the final signed and witnessed Trust document, if my friend wants to put his Estate in trust for his children just like I did, could I type up a document exactly the same as mine but with his personal details inserted instead and give him that, thereby saving him £3000?

Or am I missing something  - could it be that simple?

Thankyou for any replies in advance.

Malthusian

Hello. A few years ago I placed my Estate (House,Property and Savings) in Trust for the benefit of my two sons, one of whom is disabled, upon my death.

Why?
"Putting things in trust" often does not achieve what the people who spend a lot of money on it think it is going to achieve.

if my friend wants to put his Estate in trust for his children just like I did, could I type up a document exactly the same as mine but with his personal details inserted instead and give him that, thereby saving him £3000?

Why would he want to do that?

It would almost certainly be a very bad idea for him to blindly copy someone else's complex arrangements. If there is any benefit to him giving his assets to a trust he should take both independent financial advice and independent legal advice.

elsien

I agree with Malthusian. 

Unless all his circumstances are identical to yours, he is trying to achieve the same thing, and the trust does actually do what you think it will, blind copying would be foolish. 

Keep_pedalling

norm27 said:

Hello. A few years ago I placed my Estate (House,Property and Savings) in Trust for the benefit of my two sons, one of whom is disabled, upon my death. I did this through a Solicitor specialising in such matters. It cost me £3000 and I have always been amazed at such a high cost when what I got was clearly just a standard 20 page pro forma with various blank sections to insert the details particular to me - Trustees, Witnesses, Property Details, Savings Account Details etc. Unless I am missing something I reckon there couldn't have been much more than a few hours' work for the Solicitor in completing the document - and probably a junior clerk at that.. I know that I paid for the expertise in the document, but even so it did seem expensive.

My question is - now that I have the final signed and witnessed Trust document, if my friend wants to put his Estate in trust for his children just like I did, could I type up a document exactly the same as mine but with his personal details inserted instead and give him that, thereby saving him £3000?

Or am I missing something  - could it be that simple?

Thankyou for any replies in advance.

Are you paying the trustful market rent for remaining in the trust’s house?. If not as well as a potential large CGT bill when the house is eventually sold, the gift into the trust will never fall out of your estates, so IHT may also be due even in f you did it over 7 years ago. 

james.wardle

Finding a Solicitor that actually understands a Vulnerable person trust is difficult. 

I would recommend you point your friend at https://www.renaissancelegal.co.uk/. they are specialists in vulnerable person trusts.

If you are having doubts about your own arrangements they will offer an audit and advice session for about £400.   which in my case was very worthwhile as they have saved me 10's of thousands of pounds compared with the arrangements my previous STEP solicitor wanted to put in place.

SeniorSam

I presume that you and your wife own the property as tenants in common, so that you each own a half of the home. In addition, if IHT is a concern, then additional residential allowances are now available, offering up to £500,000 each before inheritance taxation, therefore no tax unless above one million pounds.

The Trust to be set up upon your death is probably due to the fact that your Son is disabled and may well have been very sensible. As long as the Trust allows your wife to remain there for the rest of her lifetime, then you may have also seen the benefit of reducing any IHT liability if there is to be one. 

With your Son's disability, then the Trust would be more specific and instructions for Trustees more detailed.  I do hope that you have not given instructions that the solicitors act as Trustees in addition to your wife and any other, as solicitors have a reputation of charging very large ongoing fees.  If so, you can make changes to Trustees now, before any damage may be done.

In general, Banks and Solicitors should be avoided as Trustees unless there are far more complications than can be dealt with by family or friends that you can trust to administer your wishes for you.

It would help to know a little more about the type of Trust, as well as a rough guide to the possible value of the estate, as it is important to clarify details whilst you are alive in case you need to make changes. The costs of drawing up th Will Trust are rather high, unless more details were needed.

securityguy

"My question is - now that I have the final signed and witnessed Trust document, if my friend wants to put his Estate in trust for his children just like I did, could I type up a document exactly the same as mine but with his personal details inserted instead and give him that, thereby saving him £3000?"

And potentially costing him hundreds of thousands of pounds.  Why would he want to do this?

SeniorSam

The only problem could be that the Trust is more specific, ( there are several Trusts that could be used) relating to your one son's disability. then That Trust would be wrong for your friend. Otherwise, he could draft a similar Will and ask a solicitor to review it, subject to agreeing a fee in the first place for that review and to witness it when he signs it. Then proceed accordingly,

The services of most solicitors in relation to preparing suitable Wills is beneficial. They accept responsibility should anything go wrong, so do be careful in letting anyone have copies to make their own Wills as there may be a possibility you may be held liable.

xylophone

It seems to me that your friend would be unwise to involve himself in any form of Trust arrangement without taking expert advice on his personal circumstances.

He could get into a tax tangle and there could be difficulties if he were to find himself in the position of needing means tested care at any point.

theoretica

Also, the legislation around trusts changes and copying old paperwork runs the risk of setting something up that made sense under previous legislation but is counterproductive or badly chosen now.  Depending on your trust - is it something all set up not ow only to take effect on your death - you should keep informed about changing legislation or as suggested have regular reviews that it still meets your needs and intentions.

Marcon

norm27 said:

if my friend wants to put his Estate in trust for his children just like I did, could I type up a document exactly the same as mine but with his personal details inserted instead and give him that, thereby saving him £3000?

Or am I missing something  - could it be that simple?

I think what you - and he - might be missing is whether it's a good idea for him to do so at all. What does he hope to accomplish? Putting the house in trust won't automatically save IHT (but could actually lead to hefty tax bills) or prevent the value of the house from being taken into consideration if care home fees need to be paid.