How to minimise Social Care costs?

Keep_pedalling

Gifting his house is a very bad idea. For one thing it will be regarded as deliberate deprivation of assets so will not lower the care cost. If as is the case with most of us he never needs residential care then you will probably be facing an unnecessary CGT bill.

tooldle

Why so obsessed with keeping the house. A lot of older persons who need care, will struggle to cope with 'maintaining' a house. Retirement flats are popular for a reason. 
Gifting a percentage of a wholly owned house, doesn't seem the best of ideas especially where a loan will then be secured on the gifted asset. Bonkers!

SusieT

Keep_pedalling said:

Gifting his house is a very bad idea. For one thing it will be regarded as deliberate deprivation of assets so will not lower the care cost. If as is the case with most of us he never needs residential care then you will probably be facing an unnecessary CGT bill.

No deprivation of assets, since for IHT he is well under the allowance and we are not looking to lower care costs we will pay whatever he needs and are not looking to reduce his asset for that reason, unlikely to be  any CGT bills since the value is unlikely to rise by anything like the allowance, and will ONLY be done if he is approaching the point where care is needed so that we can pay for the care that he requires. He can stay in a home that he loves (where his parents were born/spent their entire lives and he lived for many years both as a child and later as an adult). Why should we tell him he needs to be moved out of somewhere he loves into a retirement flat when (at the moment) we expect that he will be able to have home care for much of the time? If it comes to him needing specialised care the money will still be there to pay for it since it will ONLY be used for HIS needs.

tooldle said:

Why so obsessed with keeping the house. A lot of older persons who need care, will struggle to cope with 'maintaining' a house. Retirement flats are popular for a reason. 
Gifting a percentage of a wholly owned house, doesn't seem the best of ideas especially where a loan will then be secured on the gifted asset. Bonkers!

His parents were born there, possibly his grandparents as well. He was there (born in a hospital but was there from a baby) as a child and later in life. He has many many happy memories there and small though it is has spent a lot of time on the garden where he now loves to sit. We are not callous enough to tell him oopsie you are old and do not get around as easily so off you go to a retirement flat, when that would make him miserable as hell. I know a lot of people go to them and love them but he has visited friends in them (who are very happy there) and has said he would hate to live like them, each to their own. If he wants care at home for as long as possible and we can make it happen for him then that is what he will have.

elsien

No one has a scooby as yet as to what the board element of any care home fees would be, as at present care homes don’t work it out like that.
There was an earlier suggestion that it could be capped at up to 12K a year, but that was in a previous independent report.
The government have given no indication as yet as to how this will work so any figures you are working on will only be guesstimates and will very likely vary according to geographical area. 

tooldle

There are an awful lot of assumptions and emotions in the above post.
Most of us have no idea of what is around the corner, and making a plan is sensible. But in making the plan consideration should be given to how things might change. Memories are wonderful things, although not helpful if sat on ones own in a home in desperate need of work. 
Gardens are lovely and can bring much joy. Changes in eyesight and mobility can prevent can turn joy into burden. Equally what once we thought would make us miserable, in altered circumstances can bring joy.
Great that you are thinking of the future and definitely speak to a solicitor about your plans.

es5595

If you’d like to minimise care costs then one of the few ways is looking at a membership of Dignitas. I can see little point in wasting away in a care home with all my dignity gone, and if you feel the same way, it’s something worth looking into. 

kuepper

As I don't have much social contact it's always interesting to hear ppls views here. When I said I scrimp and save I don't do without anything, I don't yearn for a new shiny car or to live in a better house, or wear designer clothes. I don't drink or smoke and just live my life along sensible moneysaving lines as per MSE advice.My extravagance is travel and I've been to all my bucket list destinations inc Galapagos, Easter Island, Bhutan and North Korea.

Social care was free until the 1980s and that forms part of my mindset of not wanting to pay for it now as it was political dogma that stopped it being free. Wanting to save hard to maximise the money I leave for my family is no different to me to ppl saying they worked hard to pay for private education etc.

On a practical point where can I learn more about 'deliberate deprivation of assets' and what constitutes 'gifting'? Would selling at a reduced value be a gift? Isn't there a cut off point like the 7 year rule for inheritance tax?

Pollycat

Easy to Google:
Deprivation of assets in social care (ageuk.org.uk)

I really don't see why you feel that something that was free 40 odd years ago should still be free now.

I really don't see why people think other people should fund their or their family members care.

onomatopoeia99

Pollycat said:

I really don't see why people think other people should fund their or their family members care.

You can extend that argument to other things, for example "I don't see why other people should fund your healthcare."

It's about shared risk.  We all pay for the NHS through taxes and it's there for all of us whether we need it or not, the risk is pooled.  If we stay in hospital we don't get charged thousands a week for nursing care.

For some reason some people think that social care is different and the risk should not be shared. There seem to be plenty of voiciferous people on this board that think social care should not be part of the "cradle to grave" welfare state and by implication it should be redefined "cradle to dementia".

Why is social care different to healthcare?

tooldle

Is it a shared risk? Not everyone pays tax and few of those who do make a net contribution. The majority take more than they receive, with a smaller proportion breaking even and a smaller proportion again making a net contribution.

If health and social care were to be fully covered for everyone with no rationing, tax receipts would need to rise significantly. One way or another we all need to pay more to achieve a free service for all.