National Insurance contributions to rise by 1.25% points from April 2022 to fund social care costs

csgohan4

RyanHello said:

csgohan4 said:

biscan25 said:

This is an utterly ridiculous policy, for a number of reasons:
- Generationally unfair
- Disproportionately affects lower earners, as NI is a flat tax
- Not paid by pensioners. The people still in employment after SPA are those that cannot afford to retire.
-Not paid on rental income - a glaring omission, but I suspect this will be addressed in subsequent amendments
- Actually a 2.5% tax increase. Whereas people like myself will have to meet the employer cost straight away, as I am a contractor employed within an umbrella company, normal salaried people will have it passed on through reduced future payrises.
- A direct tax on jobs, at possibly the worst possible time.

In an ideal world I think that care costs should be met via a tax on wealth, since this is both the most fair and efficient. Alternatively using income tax the share of cost could be met by those more able to bear it.

If not the working people being taxed then who?

- So you are suggesting a wealth tax and those rich fat cats to pay for everyone else's care? Do you know how much of the super rich pay for the government's tax? If your taking the 1% can be around 30%+

- Can you define how much a 'rich' person would be earning from all sources?

- taxing these rich people, who i assume are those earning over 100k,  who are your experienced Consultant Medical and surgical  personnel will be counterproductive. They will and indeed have reduced their NHS time as result to reduce tax burden and rightly so.

Who wants to work more and get taxed proportionally more? which can be effectively over 60% in tax on your take home pay 
https://www.rcseng.ac.uk/news-and-events/media-centre/press-releases/

No Tax is going to be popular, how do you raise money for spending? You raise taxes. The Government doesn't just magic money from no where. I don't like more taxes either, but it is a means to an end to prop up a failing and underfunded system. Whether you use the state care or not is another discussion, but if I had the choice I wouldn't due to the bare minimum it gives you. 

borrowing more money is really not an option in the long term. When interest rates go up, the government and indeed the country will be in trouble, struggling to keep up with repayments, they have borrowed a boatload already.

Guess who will pay for the country's debt? That's right working people. If the debt is high, means less money for services and more money to service debt. 

You do not need to tax anyone at all. Rich or poor.

Britain gave over £14.5 billion in foreign aid last year. 

There's your budget for new hospitals, staff training and social care.

Combine that with the £350 million a week we were "promised" from leaving the EU, what's that... £17 billion ish?

That's over £30 billion. 

Brexit, I am not going too much into that. But  I am not at all impressed with the fallout, those carers/medical personnel people depended have gone back home and rightly so. The HGV drivers and lack of e.t.c affecting supplies for food and health, the list is endless

The people who voted thought we would be better and have a better deal. Reality is so sad and cruel

Sea_Shell

billy2shots said:

In case some people are not aware, us care providers have to give a breakdown of costs to the paying local authority (the funding council). 

These costs are broken down into quite small detail however in simple terms it's very clear to see the 'cost of care' and the 'cost of environment' or hotel cost so to speak. 


The sceptic in me thinks the government have been clever with their wording as in a lifetime cap of £85000 towards someone's "care'. 

I wouldn't be surprised if those in care (with savings) have to pay for the 'hotel' element of their stay with no cap on that. 

Out of interest @billy2shots , in your professional experience, what proportion of the total weekly care bill is "personal" care, roughly, on average?

40% 50% 60%?

Jeremy535897

unkle said:

Sterlingtimes said:

Does the increased dividend tax impact directly upon investment returns inside pension funds?

Dividends in pensions are already taxed 10% I believe, so assume this will go to 11.25%, but just assuming rather than any in-depth knowledge!

That ended in 2016 (it was a notional, and therefore non-refundable, tax credit). Pension funds don't pay tax, so I don't see how this levy could apply to them (it would be wholly illogical if it did, as shares in ISAs are exempt from it).

billy2shots

Sea_Shell said:

billy2shots said:

In case some people are not aware, us care providers have to give a breakdown of costs to the paying local authority (the funding council). 

These costs are broken down into quite small detail however in simple terms it's very clear to see the 'cost of care' and the 'cost of environment' or hotel cost so to speak. 


The sceptic in me thinks the government have been clever with their wording as in a lifetime cap of £85000 towards someone's "care'. 

I wouldn't be surprised if those in care (with savings) have to pay for the 'hotel' element of their stay with no cap on that. 

Out of interest @billy2shots , in your professional experience, what proportion of the total weekly care bill is "personal" care, roughly, on average?

40% 50% 60%?

It would vary wildly depending on the person's needs. I have service users who need minimal staff time and others who require 2 members of staff regularly throughout the day. As an average across a couple of homes that I run I would say the care costs are 60% if not a little more.

Edited to add, care can take place in many forms so I'm including supporting someone in social activities as this is a big part of the care I provide. 

Caveat, I support younger adults with LD, Autism and challenging behaviour. 

So even if the new rules don't cover 'hotel costs' there is still a huge saving for the person receiving care if/when they reach the £86k cap. 

billy2shots

AlwaysLearnin said:

billy2shots said:

In case some people are not aware, us care providers have to give a breakdown of costs to the paying local authority (the funding council). 

These costs are broken down into quite small detail however in simple terms it's very clear to see the 'cost of care' and the 'cost of environment' or hotel cost so to speak. 


The sceptic in me thinks the government have been clever with their wording as in a lifetime cap of £85000 towards someone's "care'. 

I wouldn't be surprised if those in care (with savings) have to pay for the 'hotel' element of their stay with no cap on that. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58442991

I thought I would be right. I didn't think it would only take a couple of hours to be proven right lol (my comment was before the article). 

The other elephant in the room is this health and social care reform will help wealthy residents receiving care in a home or at home and will also give the NHS extra, but it won't actually help the health and social care sector. 

We will now be paying extra in Employer National Insurance contributions, but without receiving any much needed financial support from a scheme that suggests and is titled like we will. 

Another tightening of the rope that's just about ready to snap. 

[Deleted User]

This is awful, I'm getting absolutely hammered at a time when I really can't afford it because house prices are rising insanely fast.

Sterlingtimes

jameslester78 said:

unkle said:

I'll be upping my salary sacrifice payments into pension as I suspect a lot of people will. 

Just emailed HR to get this done right away, also added a little bit extra as I neglected to increased my contribution the last couple of years. Thanks for the kick up th bum Boris.

Salary sacrifice has been a great little wheeze over the years leading finally up to my retirement. I think that few exploited it fully by sending the little emails to HR. Do people still carry out salary manipulations to retain Child Benefit?

Earlier in my career, we all used to use various contrivances to "get our mileage in". The income tax system would incentivise us to drive additional miles with company cars (a sort of anti-eco tax). What fun!

Sterlingtimes

Jeremy535897 said:

unkle said:

Sterlingtimes said:

Does the increased dividend tax impact directly upon investment returns inside pension funds?

Dividends in pensions are already taxed 10% I believe, so assume this will go to 11.25%, but just assuming rather than any in-depth knowledge!

That ended in 2016 (it was a notional, and therefore non-refundable, tax credit). Pension funds don't pay tax, so I don't see how this levy could apply to them (it would be wholly illogical if it did, as shares in ISAs are exempt from it).

Thank you. That has reduced my anxiety. 

unkle

Sea_Shell said:

billy2shots said:

In case some people are not aware, us care providers have to give a breakdown of costs to the paying local authority (the funding council). 

These costs are broken down into quite small detail however in simple terms it's very clear to see the 'cost of care' and the 'cost of environment' or hotel cost so to speak. 


The sceptic in me thinks the government have been clever with their wording as in a lifetime cap of £85000 towards someone's "care'. 

I wouldn't be surprised if those in care (with savings) have to pay for the 'hotel' element of their stay with no cap on that. 

Out of interest @billy2shots , in your professional experience, what proportion of the total weekly care bill is "personal" care, roughly, on average?

40% 50% 60%?

FWIW and this dates back to ending mid 2017. Just over 5 years in a home cost my father £276k, of which £81k was care costs.

Sea_Shell

unkle said:

Sea_Shell said:

billy2shots said:

In case some people are not aware, us care providers have to give a breakdown of costs to the paying local authority (the funding council). 

These costs are broken down into quite small detail however in simple terms it's very clear to see the 'cost of care' and the 'cost of environment' or hotel cost so to speak. 


The sceptic in me thinks the government have been clever with their wording as in a lifetime cap of £85000 towards someone's "care'. 

I wouldn't be surprised if those in care (with savings) have to pay for the 'hotel' element of their stay with no cap on that. 

Out of interest @billy2shots , in your professional experience, what proportion of the total weekly care bill is "personal" care, roughly, on average?

40% 50% 60%?

FWIW and this dates back to ending mid 2017. Just over 5 years in a home cost my father £276k, of which £81k was care costs.

They'll sound like pretty "catastrophic costs" to a lot of people!!!

He didn't even reach the proposed cap!