Unpaid shadow days?

Undervalued

MarkN88 said:

I did recently see an advert for a role that said they wanted anyone selected for interview to come and do an unpaid week with them. 

Well, a skills test isn't (or certainly wasn't) uncommon in many trades. A week does seem a bit excessive though.

It depends rather on what they would be doing. If it is various exercises so that the potential employer can full assess their skill level then maybe fair enough. If they are simply churning out routine work which will be sold or charged to a client then that is clearly exploiting the situation.

Undervalued

danjackson2021 said:

Is it legal for an employer to ask an employee to come in unpaid for training?

I think it depends on the situation. If the person is working towards a recognised qualification and has to perform supervised practical work then that is probably OK. If they are just doing their normal day to day work without pay then that is clearly not OK.

danjackson2021

It’s not right to be asked to work for free is it

this example started out as shadow days and now these free training days are becoming regular 

danjackson2021

The dentist says they can’t afford to pay the training days

comeandgo

If it’s training then no need to pay them.

Jillanddy

danjackson2021 said:

The dentist says they can’t afford to pay the training days

Then the answer is clear - get another job. If they cant afford training days, how long will it be before they can't afford anything else?

Own_Worst_Enermy

Sorry to upset I know you are saying about not getting paid and are concerned.

But my logic is these days are gems - you truly get to see if you want to continue working there, you must tell yourself
*under no obligation*.

I know people who have had remote interviews in these times so never really got to see where they would even be working (the environment let alone colleagues in the building) spent 6 weeks passing all manner of background checks to then have a
truly awful first day which in most instances never gets better.
I've also been the person paid for a trial day and then had the job role changed... I cannot tell you how rather obligated I felt to go work somewhere after that paid trial. (Sadly I never found out about the role change either until it was to late so looking back I wish I hadn't been paid)
Would you rather find out you aren't the right fit in a day or two or, or 3 months down the line when you've spent even more time dedicated to the cause. An interview just is never long enough and to 'get lucky' is just to risky.

I've recently left an Employer who skipped paying final dues - the state has stepped in. Sure a week in employment alone used to bring in just around £368 whereas a month's UC based on my circumstances is £324 but still something to which I'll be grateful for.

danjackson2021

But what is the law about shadow days?

im sure it’s fine if just watching and not getting paid but what if they ask you to actually work? You are then not insured or covered in so many ways

Is it lawful 

Jillanddy

danjackson2021 said:

But what is the law about shadow days?

im sure it’s fine if just watching and not getting paid but what if they ask you to actually work? You are then not insured or covered in so many ways

Is it lawful 

There's no such thing as a law on "shadow days". So it has to be extrapolated from other laws. In reality if it takes you below the National Living Wage, it probably isn't lawful. It may not be anyway. But so what? If you don't want to do unpaid training time then you are at liberty to refuse. Or you can raise a grievance and demand payment. You could take them to a tribunal for the wages you claim you are owed. But you have to do something. Posting on line won't get you anywhere.

Obviously, doing something about it will almost certainly result in your being unpaid for a lot more time, because it's likely you'll have no job at all. Is that an outcome you are ok about, because you will need to be. You might have grounds for unfair dismissal, but you also might not. 

You have asked these questions, and you have had the best answers anyone can give you. But realistically you have three options - suck it up, get another job, or insist on payment / refuse to go in unpaid. 

I don't see any real argument about "not being covered" - you are insured because being paid and being insured are two different things. This is solely about whether you are going to do something about it or not. 

caprikid1

I guess if not working the employer could class these as a "Training Course" and part of a training contract repayable if the employee leaves inside 12 months.......