Several Queries (UK/Ireland Work)

sunonthecross

Hello, if this is not the right Forum apologies - I couldn't seem to find one and this seems the closest. I have a  number of queries if anyone can make any contributions to.

I am a UK citizen who has worked in Ireland since July 2007, with periods in full time and part-time employment. I lived in Ireland until Jan 2015 before returning to Belfast but I continued to work part-time in Ireland. I have NI Contribution gaps from 2007 to present as I have not earned any income in the UK since 2007 (aside from a very small amount doing walking tours, which were declared through a UK Self Assessment form). From Oct 2021 I expect to be working (part-time) in the UK again and not working in Ireland.

1st query: should I pay my NI Contribution gaps? What are the Pros & Cons of doing so? I can't say with any certainty that I expect to remain working and living in the UK beyond for the next 2 years.

2nd query: having paid the equivalent of NI Contributions in Ireland since 2007 does that mean I will have some State Pension entitlements in the future from Ireland?

3rd query: I had been paying into a Pension (one was an Employer Contributing scheme and another was Personal, through the same company. Will my pensions payments only be made through this Irish Pensions Scheme once I'm eligible to claim them? Can they be transferred to a different UK pension scheme?

Any guidance or sign-posting or advice would be very much appreciated. Cheers.

Ricky

Gary1984

I'm in a similar situation so as I understand it:

1) If you don't think you'll work enough to get full number of NI contributions before state pension age then it would certainly be good value for money. However check with HMRC that you're actually allowed to as you were paying into the Irish system in these years and not living in the UK for some of those years. Another poster may know the rules around this.

2) Yes, you should qualify for the Irish state pension. As an aside check if you can also make voluntary contributions to the Irish pension. Again I'm not sure the rules.

3) The pension will be through the Irish pensions company. I looked into transferring my Irish pension to the UK but couldn't find anyone who'd accept it. Then just decided it would be easier to keep it where it is and transfer the future payments from it rather than transfer the pension itself.

eastcorkram

@sunonthecross

Re the state pension from Ireland. There's a lot of info on this, and the pro rata conditions on the Irish government website. 

What's not so easy, is to get a straightforward answer. I've had contact via letter, email, phone and face to face , and never got a definitive answer from the social welfare dept .

I have a full record of my PRSI contributions, and from memory I think I have 890 weekly payments. Now that's way more than enough to qualify for a partial pension. What complicates it, is that I've enough NI years in UK to get full state pension here.  It appears to be easier to work out if for example, you had a total of 40 years contributions , 20 in each country . 

The frustrating part about this is that if I could gaurantee getting something from that, I would definitely retire early, and live on money from my SIPP for say two or three years. 

nigelbb

You can make voluntary NI contributions in the UK whatever your situation is work-wise abroad. If employed or self-employed you can pay Class 2 at around £150 for each added year instead of Class 3 at around £800 for each added year. Each extra year of contributions buys an index-linked pension of £250 per year for the rest of your life which given average life expectancy at retirement is worth at least £5,000. Full details in HMRC leaflet "Social Security abroad" See Page 9 for eligibility to pay Class 2 contributions. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/947544/NI38_12_20.pdf

sunonthecross

Gary1984 said:

I'm in a similar situation so as I understand it:

1) If you don't think you'll work enough to get full number of NI contributions before state pension age then it would certainly be good value for money. However check with HMRC that you're actually allowed to as you were paying into the Irish system in these years and not living in the UK for some of those years. Another poster may know the rules around this.

2) Yes, you should qualify for the Irish state pension. As an aside check if you can also make voluntary contributions to the Irish pension. Again I'm not sure the rules.

3) The pension will be through the Irish pensions company. I looked into transferring my Irish pension to the UK but couldn't find anyone who'd accept it. Then just decided it would be easier to keep it where it is and transfer the future payments from it rather than transfer the pension itself.

Thanks for the detailed response and suggestions. Much appreciated. It's been a complicated mix of living and working in Ireland and the UK since 2007 so I certainly need to make further inquiries with the relevant Agencies. Thanks again.

sunonthecross

eastcorkram said:

@sunonthecross

Re the state pension from Ireland. There's a lot of info on this, and the pro rata conditions on the Irish government website. 

What's not so easy, is to get a straightforward answer. I've had contact via letter, email, phone and face to face , and never got a definitive answer from the social welfare dept .

I have a full record of my PRSI contributions, and from memory I think I have 890 weekly payments. Now that's way more than enough to qualify for a partial pension. What complicates it, is that I've enough NI years in UK to get full state pension here.  It appears to be easier to work out if for example, you had a total of 40 years contributions , 20 in each country . 

The frustrating part about this is that if I could gaurantee getting something from that, I would definitely retire early, and live on money from my SIPP for say two or three years. 

Thanks for the detailed response. I'll check what my PRSI Contributions have been and make contact with them. Although it sounds from your own experience that I may not get a definitive answer. I suspect I will be working full time in the UK for the next few years then back working in Ireland after that. I'm 48 now so retirement is some way off. Thanks again.

sunonthecross

nigelbb said:

You can make voluntary NI contributions in the UK whatever your situation is work-wise abroad. If employed or self-employed you can pay Class 2 at around £150 for each added year instead of Class 3 at around £800 for each added year. Each extra year of contributions buys an index-linked pension of £250 per year for the rest of your life which given average life expectancy at retirement is worth at least £5,000.

Thanks for the detailed response and that seems very straightforward. What would be the difference in making the Class 2 payment versus the Class 3 at retirement age? Just a larger pension payout?

eastcorkram

sunonthecross said:

eastcorkram said:

@sunonthecross

Re the state pension from Ireland. There's a lot of info on this, and the pro rata conditions on the Irish government website. 

What's not so easy, is to get a straightforward answer. I've had contact via letter, email, phone and face to face , and never got a definitive answer from the social welfare dept .

I have a full record of my PRSI contributions, and from memory I think I have 890 weekly payments. Now that's way more than enough to qualify for a partial pension. What complicates it, is that I've enough NI years in UK to get full state pension here.  It appears to be easier to work out if for example, you had a total of 40 years contributions , 20 in each country . 

The frustrating part about this is that if I could gaurantee getting something from that, I would definitely retire early, and live on money from my SIPP for say two or three years. 

Thanks for the detailed response. I'll check what my PRSI Contributions have been and make contact with them. Although it sounds from your own experience that I may not get a definitive answer. I suspect I will be working full time in the UK for the next few years then back working in Ireland after that. I'm 48 now so retirement is some way off. Thanks again.

You should have no problems obtaining your record of PRSI contributions. I got this pretty much by return post . 

Whereas in the UK , you can go online and get a state pension forecast. There doesn't seem to be an equivalent facility in Ireland. 

QrizB

sunonthecross said:

nigelbb said:

You can make voluntary NI contributions in the UK whatever your situation is work-wise abroad. If employed or self-employed you can pay Class 2 at around £150 for each added year instead of Class 3 at around £800 for each added year. Each extra year of contributions buys an index-linked pension of £250 per year for the rest of your life which given average life expectancy at retirement is worth at least £5,000.

Thanks for the detailed response and that seems very straightforward. What would be the difference in making the Class 2 payment versus the Class 3 at retirement age? Just a larger pension payout?

From a pension perspective there is no difference between Class 2 and Class 3 NI contributions. See the table at this link:

https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance/what-national-insurance-is-for

Grueler

Class 3 contributions would be much more expensive. As regards the Irish system the Government is reviewing the way the State pension is calculated, they are transitioning from a yearly average to a total contribution system. At the moment they check your eligibility using both systems and then use whatever gives you the best pension, not bad !!!

sunonthecross

Grueler said:

Class 3 contributions would be much more expensive. As regards the Irish system the Government is reviewing the way the State pension is calculated, they are transitioning from a yearly average to a total contribution system. At the moment they check your eligibility using both systems and then use whatever gives you the best pension, not bad !!!

Thanks, appreciate the response. I shall take your advice and check both. It's encouraging to be able to work out which will provide me with the best overall pension outcome.