Hybrid working - Employer home visits

AinsleyFatCat

Jillanddy said:

AinsleyFatCat said:

I see what you're saying Dazed_and_C0nfused &  Jillanddy  - I've worked for my employer for so long, that I forget that not all employers are remotely concerned about their employee's welfare, but that is not always the case is it (and it's for the employer's protection also).  Mine's in effect government, so strictly by the book. I think that my thinking is clouded, because I've increasingly started to hate my job and find it difficult to switch off.  Thanks for the comments so far:)

So is mine "government". They are so focussed on saving money they have forgotten all else and have lost the book. I keep pointing out that this will come back to haunt them. Just as I continue to admonish staff when I catch them sunk on the sofa whilst working on the laptop etc! You might be perfectly well behaved - I am, as I have an office at home and am very conscious of all things. But I regret to say that many people aren't, and there will be "tears before bedtime" I'm sure.

But it seems the issue isn't the agreement but runs much deeper. Do you actually hate your job? It's ok if you do. We all get to the point where we don't want the job any more. If that's the case, the location of your work won't change that and it's time to get a new job. If it's boundaries, well that is hard but you need to start setting them. Working from home makes it easy to blur the boundaries. And it's all fun and games when it works in our benefit - doing the washing whilst working, hoovering around whilst on a break or a slow period. But it also means that it hard to switch off when you aren't "in the office". 

There are ways of adjusting that mindset. Be less flexible about start and finish times. Treat it as 9-5 or whatever. Have a new "commute" - mine is walking my dog. I walk the dog, work, walk the dog - and after that time is my own. There's lots of stuff on the internet about how to create work /life boundaries, not just work/life balance. Find things that work for you.

Do I hate my job?  The people are great, can't complain about the benefits, the pay is relatively good (all this has stopped me from leaving), but the actual job itself has changed beyond belief in my many years of working there, and so has the expectations, which works very nicely now for my employer as I am in effect, now available on tap at home. There is no way that I could be a shirker even if I wanted to be, as my job is very target led and will be even more so in the near future with a new system coming into place.  I do work above what I am contracted to do, even if it's just 20 minutes each day, which is my fault, as I'm not being forced/coerced into doing that, and consequently, I'm feeling now that I'm never away from the 'office'.  However, I could ensure that I have a definite personal boundary for my start and finish times (as I would normally have have when in the office, with some quid quo pro flexibility, which is expected).  This is something  that I can do for myself, and also to set the boundary for my employer, as we effectively sign on and off to each other at the beginning and end of the working day.  I do think that I need a new 'commute', as I using that time to sleep in later, so consequently, I'm straight into work!

AinsleyFatCat

Wyndham said:

So the employer wants to:
1) Give you notice of a visit (I assume you could negotiate the exact time if that were appropriate?)
2) Check that you are within the health and safety guidelines (so, for example, not sat at an awful desk that will lead to significant problems in later life...)
3) And to check that you are doing the right things in regards to confidentiality of data

And you are objecting??? Seriously???

Sorry to say it, but the only reason I can see to object is that you have something to hide. Are you doing something you shouldn't be? And if you are, is it something that could be rectified if you returned to the office full time? You can't have this both ways, unfortunately - either you continue to work from home in 'normal times', and that is appropriate for your circumstances, or you go back to the space in the office that the employer has provided for you.

Okay!  I have nothing at all to hide at all. I'm a very conscientious, trustworthy worker. I just like my home life to be separate from my work life, and not wanting my employer/boss into my personal space, which was a no-go area before.  I don't see what is wrong with feeling like that.  However, I now do see the points of view or yours and other commenters so far, which I understand, and I agree with and accept as necessary.  This is precisely why I put this out there, in order to get some perspective and balance, which I now have, for which I thank you all:) 

AinsleyFatCat

74jax said:

Can you opt in to going in the office full time? Or is the office only open for half the week? 

This policy wouldn't bother me. In fact I'd rather that, than no health and safety checks. 

Re Teams meetings, are you saying your company actually disallows you using the Teams backgrounds? I would not like that at all.  My husband's work only ALLOWS the Teams backgrounds, you can not show your office /bedroom /personal space in any meeting. So I completely understand if your work categorically says you must show it. 

Hi, It's hybrid, with 60% WFH and 40% in the office.  We're allowed Teams backgrounds, which I think is more or less required for the more serious meetings, although, it has not been enforced.  In my opinion, it's definitely not on that you would not be allowed to have a choice.  My concern re camera's, is generally for all home workers, that it does not become the norm that you have your webcam on all the time during your working hours.  I've heard of that happening already in the UK.  I would hate that. 

AinsleyFatCat

Marcon said:

AinsleyFatCat said:

However, I feel that allowing my employer to actually come into my house and inspect, is a step too far for me.  My question is - What is your opinion on this?  Do you think that it's too much also?  It just doesn't sit well with me, as I believe that your home is now the last bastian of privacy.  Am I overthinking this?  I would be grateful for any opinions.  Thank you.

Have a look at this, which might get things in perspective in terms of the obligations placed on your employer in respect of those working from home: https://www.allianz.co.uk/risk-management/risk-topics/people-management/homeworkers-welfare.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs8qIlObW8gIVUe3tCh0yagPyEAAYASAAEgIci_D_BwE

Thank you - I want that home office instead of  mine

Jillanddy

AinsleyFatCat said:

Marcon said:

AinsleyFatCat said:

However, I feel that allowing my employer to actually come into my house and inspect, is a step too far for me.  My question is - What is your opinion on this?  Do you think that it's too much also?  It just doesn't sit well with me, as I believe that your home is now the last bastian of privacy.  Am I overthinking this?  I would be grateful for any opinions.  Thank you.

Have a look at this, which might get things in perspective in terms of the obligations placed on your employer in respect of those working from home: https://www.allianz.co.uk/risk-management/risk-topics/people-management/homeworkers-welfare.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs8qIlObW8gIVUe3tCh0yagPyEAAYASAAEgIci_D_BwE

Thank you - I want that home office instead of  mine

Me too- and mine is rather nice anyway. It perhaps misses the point of what most people's "home working" experience is - most of my staff barely have enough rooms in the house for the family, and the "office" is their kitchen / dining table - if they even have one of those. I am under no illusion that I am lucky. Or that our CEO who is driving the changes to permanent working from home / hybrid working has an office like the one shown, not like mine and not remotely like what most of his staff have!

On your point about the webcam though, I agree. That would be the step too far for me. I am happy to use Teams for meetings or chats. But if the webcam was on all the time or activated remotely I feel sure that the work related stress would trigger my use of that 12 months paid sick leave. Largely because I retire in 20 months, and I remain where I am out of commitment to the work rather than love of the employer. But I could re-evaluate that...

NBLondon

Jillanddy said:

On your point about the webcam though, I agree. That would be the step too far for me. I am happy to use Teams for meetings or chats. But if the webcam was on all the time or activated remotely I feel sure that the work related stress would trigger my use of that 12 months paid sick leave. 

My webcam would be mysteriously broken....  

I guess it depends on the role.  In call centres, it's often normal to be monitored closely so if you are doing that from home then the same might apply.  If you are handling confidential information then the employer has every right to ensure that it is protected.  They also have the obligation to provide e.g. a lockable cupboard if necessary.

Grumpy_chap

Jillanddy said:

On your point about the webcam though, I agree. That would be the step too far for me. I am happy to use Teams for meetings or chats. But if the webcam was on all the time or activated remotely 

Sometimes I stick a post-it note to remind me of something important.
It can't be helped if sometimes that post-it note *accidentally* obscures the webcam.

I've always done that anyway, just in case of fraudulent connection dialling up, or I watched too many James Bond films and wanted to be certain that MI5 / KGB weren't checking me out.

Sncjw

So you want a sepration from. Home life and work life yet you are applying to go hybrid. It doesn't make sense. 

elsien

AinsleyFatCat said:

Jillanddy said:

AinsleyFatCat said:

I see what you're saying Dazed_and_C0nfused &  Jillanddy  - I've worked for my employer for so long, that I forget that not all employers are remotely concerned about their employee's welfare, but that is not always the case is it (and it's for the employer's protection also).  Mine's in effect government, so strictly by the book. I think that my thinking is clouded, because I've increasingly started to hate my job and find it difficult to switch off.  Thanks for the comments so far:)

So is mine "government". They are so focussed on saving money they have forgotten all else and have lost the book. I keep pointing out that this will come back to haunt them. Just as I continue to admonish staff when I catch them sunk on the sofa whilst working on the laptop etc! You might be perfectly well behaved - I am, as I have an office at home and am very conscious of all things. But I regret to say that many people aren't, and there will be "tears before bedtime" I'm sure.

But it seems the issue isn't the agreement but runs much deeper. Do you actually hate your job? It's ok if you do. We all get to the point where we don't want the job any more. If that's the case, the location of your work won't change that and it's time to get a new job. If it's boundaries, well that is hard but you need to start setting them. Working from home makes it easy to blur the boundaries. And it's all fun and games when it works in our benefit - doing the washing whilst working, hoovering around whilst on a break or a slow period. But it also means that it hard to switch off when you aren't "in the office". 

There are ways of adjusting that mindset. Be less flexible about start and finish times. Treat it as 9-5 or whatever. Have a new "commute" - mine is walking my dog. I walk the dog, work, walk the dog - and after that time is my own. There's lots of stuff on the internet about how to create work /life boundaries, not just work/life balance. Find things that work for you.

Do I hate my job?  The people are great, can't complain about the benefits, the pay is relatively good (all this has stopped me from leaving), but the actual job itself has changed beyond belief in my many years of working there, and so has the expectations, which works very nicely now for my employer as I am in effect, now available on tap at home. There is no way that I could be a shirker even if I wanted to be, as my job is very target led and will be even more so in the near future with a new system coming into place.  I do work above what I am contracted to do, even if it's just 20 minutes each day, which is my fault, as I'm not being forced/coerced into doing that, and consequently, I'm feeling now that I'm never away from the 'office'.  However, I could ensure that I have a definite personal boundary for my start and finish times (as I would normally have have when in the office, with some quid quo pro flexibility, which is expected).  This is something  that I can do for myself, and also to set the boundary for my employer, as we effectively sign on and off to each other at the beginning and end of the working day.  I do think that I need a new 'commute', as I using that time to sleep in later, so consequently, I'm straight into work!

Only if you allow that to happen. I have strict working time limits and at 5 pm, the office door is firmly shut and the phone is turned off time the following morning. 
I am having the opposite debate with my health and safety manager. I am perfectly happy to lock things away, complete the DSE, have the recommended equipment. But when the home working assessment asks about things such as whether my stairs are free from clutter, my answer tends towards the "mind your own business" response. If I fall down the stairs because of the clutter working its way up, I freely accept it's my own fault and nowt to do with work. That's all they need to know. 

Jillanddy

Sncjw said:

So you want a sepration from. Home life and work life yet you are applying to go hybrid. It doesn't make sense. 

No,  they aren't.  The employer is enforcing it.  You might read the thread?