Have some banks lost the ability to let us manage our money?

Eco_Miser

RG2015 said:

Seems to be a difference of opinion here between Eco_Miser and Nebulous2.

Edit. As per the Nebulous2 BBC link.

"Under the terms of the deal, Virgin Money shareholders will get 1.2125 new CYBG shares for every Virgin Money share they hold, and will end up owning about 38% of the combined business."

Also from that link

Under the deal, all the group's retail customers will be moved to Virgin Money over the next three years.

And that, combined with the re-branding, convinces me that Virgin took over Clydesdale and not the other way round, though you could say the businesses merged.

At the time people were saying that Virgin had sold VM to Clydesdale, whereas it was really a share swap and Virgin Group gained a share of the old-established Clydesdale and Yorkshire banks.

The entity with the banking licence, and the authority to print its own (Scottish) money is Clydesdale Bank PLC, which also trades as Virgin Money, Yorkshire Bank and B, and is in turn owned by Virgin Money PLC, which is part-owned by Virgin Group.

IanManc

Eco_Miser said:

RG2015 said:

Seems to be a difference of opinion here between Eco_Miser and Nebulous2.

Edit. As per the Nebulous2 BBC link.

"Under the terms of the deal, Virgin Money shareholders will get 1.2125 new CYBG shares for every Virgin Money share they hold, and will end up owning about 38% of the combined business."

Also from that link

Under the deal, all the group's retail customers will be moved to Virgin Money over the next three years.

And that, combined with the re-branding, convinces me that Virgin took over Clydesdale and not the other way round, though you could say the businesses merged.

At the time people were saying that Virgin had sold VM to Clydesdale, whereas it was really a share swap and Virgin Group gained a share of the old-established Clydesdale and Yorkshire banks.

The entity with the banking licence, and the authority to print its own (Scottish) money is Clydesdale Bank PLC, which also trades as Virgin Money, Yorkshire Bank and B, and is in turn owned by Virgin Money PLC, which is part-owned by Virgin Group.

CYBG PLC owned Clydesdale Bank, Yorkshire Bank, and also traded as B.

CYBG took over Virgin Money PLC on October 21 2019, the takeover of Virgin Money PLC having been authorised by the Court of Session in Edinburgh at a hearing on September 26 2019.

CYBG PLC changed its name to Virgin Money UK PLC on October 31 2019, and the Stock Exchange listing was changed from CYBG PLC to Virgin Money UK PLC on that day. Clydesdale Bank, Yorkshire Bank and Virgin Money PLC are wholly owned subsidiaries of what is now called Virgin Money UK PLC - which used to be CYBG PLC.

The company then began rebranding all its Yorkshire, Clydesdale and B branches to Virgin Money.

Your being convinced that Virgin took over Clydesdale is contrary to the facts.

RG2015

On a sort code checker, my Virgin Money savings accounts show as Clydesdale Bank and my current account shows as Yorkshire Bank.

I guess someone using a confirmation of payee check for a Virgin Money account, might be concerned that it comes up as Yorkshire Bank. That said, banks currently cannot check the payee name for VM accounts and only identify the sort code as Yorkshire Bank.

Pmatt

Once again I query how and why a single bank, branded as Virgin, continues to operate as two entities namely Clydesdale/Yorkshire and Northern Rock. I still have three different log in procedures in order to see my separate accounts and they function quite independently. The trouble with Virgin is that they are primarily a brand not really a bank. Not dissimilar to their arrangement with trains where they provided the red paint and the logo but only 10% of the capital. 

kaMelo

Pmatt said:

Once again I query how and why a single bank, branded as Virgin, continues to operate as two entities namely Clydesdale/Yorkshire and Northern Rock. I still have three different log in procedures in order to see my separate accounts and they function quite independently. The trouble with Virgin is that they are primarily a brand not really a bank. Not dissimilar to their arrangement with trains where they provided the red paint and the logo but only 10% of the capital. 

Because merging the three entities on to one system is fraught with difficulties. What they do not want is a meltdown like TSB had for example, and that was a simple (if it can ever be such a thing) export of data from one system to another rather than merging data from different systems.  
One example, whilst it is possible to choose the same username across all three different systems the default username/customer no. is different across all three. Current accounts have a ten digit no, savings accounts are seven digits and alphanumeric, credit cards have no online access at all now.  

I don't disagree, it's a disjointed system and it should be possible combine them all but I'll take that over a broken merged system.

Pmatt

kaMelo said:

Pmatt said:

Once again I query how and why a single bank, branded as Virgin, continues to operate as two entities namely Clydesdale/Yorkshire and Northern Rock. I still have three different log in procedures in order to see my separate accounts and they function quite independently. The trouble with Virgin is that they are primarily a brand not really a bank. Not dissimilar to their arrangement with trains where they provided the red paint and the logo but only 10% of the capital. 

Because merging the three entities on to one system is fraught with difficulties. What they do not want is a meltdown like TSB had for example, and that was a simple (if it can ever be such a thing) export of data from one system to another rather than merging data from different systems.  
One example, whilst it is possible to choose the same username across all three different systems the default username/customer no. is different across all three. Current accounts have a ten digit no, savings accounts are seven digits and alphanumeric, credit cards have no online access at all now.  

I don't disagree, it's a disjointed system and it should be possible combine them all but I'll take that over a broken merged system.

As I said, painting the bank red doesn't alter their efficiency. TSB failed due to mismanagement by the same people who ran it before and afterwards. It would seem that the Clydesdale and Northern Rock teams are still there and are still running their separate systems independently. Virgin has little if any banking expertise to offer, when they run out of red paint they will just sell up and move on.

username

I'm a client of Virgin Money with the Virgin Atlantic credit card and I have to admit, my experience is poor overall.

It didn't get off to the best of starts, having received a damaged card in the mail with the corner snapped off, thus rendering the card useless for contactless. The card itself took at least several working days to arrive, which in this day and age is a poor first impression.

Whilst no fault of their own that it had been sat at the bottom of a no-doubt very heavy mailbag that had been thrown onto a cage and into a lorry journey for many hours, I had to spend around 20 minutes waiting listening to the tinned music and the card itself took at least another several working days to arrive. It was painful but at least the call was free and it wasn't coming out of my minutes.

Everything went fine and we were cooking on gas. I charged stuff to the card, I got Virgin air miles. I paid the card off in full every month. Bingo. I dabbled in getting the app and found it was rubbish after an update and kept crashing for no inexplicable reason, I deleted it from my phone.

I always managed by getting a statement in the mail or going onto the website. And then, Virgin in their infinite wisdom decided to railroad everyone into using their app (and switching off access via the website, as well as forcing everyone to use paperless statements).

Maybe I'm a little old school, but I'm just not keen on solely app based banks. If that's your game then fair enough. But I've always regarded the app as just another tertiary channel to access the account and not the sole one. I just don't have faith in a single piece of electronic technology being the be-all-and-end-all of accessing your account, and if it gets broken/stolen/packs in for whatever reason you're a little stuck. Plus phones are fiddly to manage on, I prefer on the computer.

Anyway, I tried to change the statements back to paper based since that was my preference and submitted the option via the app. Whatever bug caused to crash months earlier had been fixed, but the app still performed like an arthritic dog.

No feedback was received saying my preference had been acknowledged (via text, email, on screen popup, snail mail etc - I would have appreciated something) and changed back, and it took a complaint to get an answer to say it had been done so.

No way was I going to hang on the phone for another half an hour to get an answer - as so happens I had called, but was just forever waiting, and no doubt a lot of others were calling with the same issue. There is no 'toggle' in the app to say you are on paper or not and no doubt it seems the forms just get sent to a back office dept who do the changes manually.

I recently got an BA Amex. The experience was night and day, application done on Saturday, card in my hand on Tuesday, which was impressive.

I had some teething issues, namely locking myself out of the online access by mistake and a typo on my name on the application (completely my fault, and I was expecting to send in reams of paperwork to fix it). I called and the phone was answered almost instantly and issues fixed there and then over the phone. Unfortunately Amex is not accepted everywhere, however, the first impressions were good.

robatwork

username said:

I recently got an BA Amex. The experience was night and day, application done on Saturday, card in my hand on Tuesday, which was impressive.

I had some teething issues, namely locking myself out of the online access by mistake and a typo on my name on the application (completely my fault, and I was expecting to send in reams of paperwork to fix it). I called and the phone was answered almost instantly and issues fixed there and then over the phone. Unfortunately Amex is not accepted everywhere, however, the first impressions were good.

Amex are pretty much the gold standard for credit cards in most ways. However it's still a pain to have some shops accept them and others not. For example yesterday I was in a shopping centre and bought some bits from Sports Direct, then next door to a more pricey "outdoor" shop for some more bits then into Clarks, and then to M&S. M&S and Sports Direct took Amex, the others didn't. All are ubiquitous chain shops. 

Thrugelmir

Pmatt said:

Once again I query how and why a single bank, branded as Virgin, continues to operate as two entities namely Clydesdale/Yorkshire and Northern Rock. 

Virgin bought the salvagable part of Northern Rock back in 2011. This included the savings side and branch network. Would have remained a seperate legal entity under the group's umbrella. All large corporations operate with multiple trading entities. Lloyds Bank has many operating subsidaries. 

username

robatwork said:

username said:

I recently got an BA Amex. The experience was night and day, application done on Saturday, card in my hand on Tuesday, which was impressive.

I had some teething issues, namely locking myself out of the online access by mistake and a typo on my name on the application (completely my fault, and I was expecting to send in reams of paperwork to fix it). I called and the phone was answered almost instantly and issues fixed there and then over the phone. Unfortunately Amex is not accepted everywhere, however, the first impressions were good.

Amex are pretty much the gold standard for credit cards in most ways. However it's still a pain to have some shops accept them and others not. For example yesterday I was in a shopping centre and bought some bits from Sports Direct, then next door to a more pricey "outdoor" shop for some more bits then into Clarks, and then to M&S. M&S and Sports Direct took Amex, the others didn't. All are ubiquitous chain shops. 

I would agree with that. The card data that the merchant provides seems to be more in depth, the location address is sent too, and it shows what the charge will likely appear as on your statement.

I suppose part of the problem with acceptance lies with the current merchant agreement the shops have, how long they are tied into it, and the cost of whether it is worth accepting Amex and eating into their profit margin vs. not accepting and preserving what they have currently and missing out on Amex trade.

Personally, if Amex is not accepted where I am paying, I just pay by Visa or Mastercard, no big issue. If I'm wanting to buy the item I will pay with whatever card they accept.

Acceptance seems to be more universal amongst the 'newer' card payment devices aimed at the smaller business - izettle, square, sumup all accept Amex, Visa and Mastercard by default but a flat percentage fee is charged for all cards. However, since merchant agreements seem to be pretty customised they may find longer term it works out cheaper to get a standard terminal.

There is a place locally to me called Denbies, a vineyard. In the gift shop/cafe , no Amex accepted, signs with No Amex and the mark crossed out, very clear. No doubt they must have had a lot of people trying to do so.

In the little farm shop attached, Amex accepted, however, no signs to say it does so. However, I presume the farm shop is operated by someone else and just leases the space from Denbies, thus having a different merchant agreement and stands on its own.

A little independent coffee shop in Dorking, traditional card machine, Amex not accepted.