Pension has finally landed - As an insistent client acting against advice -*DOORS CLOSED 03/09/2021*

HappyHarry

Diplodicus said:

Thankers enjoying a snicker at Dale72's expense.

But the basic problem is now starker than when AJ Bell ushered Dale's DB pension through..

1) The potential DB pension client should have the final determination.
2) But the client has to buy advice.
3) If the advice is not to transfer; it would now be extremely hard to transfer.
4) Thus, the financial adviser takes control of the outcome, which is very unhealthy.

That's where we all are, I'm afraid.

The adviser has to provide advice appropriate for their client and follow FCA guidelines whilst doing so. 

Many of your posts imply that the adviser can decide, almost on a whim, whether to advise their client to transfer or retain their DB pension. This is incorrect.

Would your energies not be better spent in pushing for a change in regulation, rather than blaming the whole scenario on advisers, who were not consulted about the new regulations?

Malthusian

"I want to control my own money."

"No problemo, but I must warn you, you'll have to basically run your own pension..."

"Cool, I want to run my own pension."

"...and it's a bit of a faff."

"hElP hElP tHe aDvIsErS aRe StEaLiNg MuH mOnIeS"

Diplodicus

HappyHarry said:

Diplodicus said:

Thankers enjoying a snicker at Dale72's expense.

But the basic problem is now starker than when AJ Bell ushered Dale's DB pension through..

1) The potential DB pension client should have the final determination.
2) But the client has to buy advice.
3) If the advice is not to transfer; it would now be extremely hard to transfer.
4) Thus, the financial adviser takes control of the outcome, which is very unhealthy.

That's where we all are, I'm afraid.

The adviser has to provide advice appropriate for their client and follow FCA guidelines whilst doing so. 

Many of your posts imply that the adviser can decide, almost on a whim, whether to advise their client to transfer or retain their DB pension. This is incorrect.

Would your energies not be better spent in pushing for a change in regulation, rather than blaming the whole scenario on advisers, who were not consulted about the new regulations?

In my view self-interest is human nature and inevitably affects the pension transfer advice model. Financial advisers have been likened to everyone from doctors (regularly, pre-pandemic) to banana republic border guards. I would liken the pension transfer advice business to teachers marking their own pupils' exam papers. And even the most scrupulous adviser is bound by his firm's legal advice, which is entirely in the interest of the adviser. So the whole concept was flawed from the start imo. I don't blame financial advisers for the mess. And I would expect their representatives here to uphold their interest.

In fairness to you, Happy Harry, the SSAS route is not something you have advocated but when I see its potential difficulties finessed to "a bit of a faff"; where the infantilised client not only has words put in his mouth but expressed in a weird kind of baby-language - call it Malthusian - I think that misrepresentation should be addressed on a consumer website.

HappyHarry

I cannot comment on the viability SSAS route, as I have not yet seen any evidence that it works for an individual. Whilst I am clear that it could theoretically work, the proof, as they say, will be in the pudding. It may be that the better SSAS providers decline to take such funds, in a similar way to the way personal pension providers do. 

However, I am uncomfortable with this solution being promoted to unwary individuals, for a couple of reasons;

1. SSASs are not regulated by the FCA. This means that this area is prone to abuse by scammers. It is worth noting too that the ceding trustees have to be comfortable with the receiving SSAS, and as the SSAS will be unregulated, it may be that the ceding scheme declines the transfer. The TPR has called for new SSASs to be banned and for transfers to SSASs to be banned, due to the amount of fraudulent activity in this area. This call pre-dates the "insistent client DB Transfer problem" scenario by a few years.
2. Setting up a SSAS and transferring out to a personal pension is more than "a bit of a faff". It is expensive and time consuming. There is a world of difference between transferring funds to and from a SSAS to transferring between personal pensions. 

Malthusian

It may be that the better SSAS providers decline to take such funds, in a similar way to the way personal pension providers do.

The advantage of the SSAS route is that you don't need any provider at all. I believe that is why it is now being routinely proposed as the backstop option. You need a Scheme Administrator but they do not have to be professionals.

(If I had a DB pension I wanted to transfer against advice, I would be trying the stakeholder pension route first, but I understand why people are discounting that and referring exclusively to SSASes. The single provider left in the direct-to-consumer arena - so far as we know - could withdraw at any time. So you need to be prepared to either follow the SSAS route or give it up as not worth the faff)

xylophone

https://www.thepensionsregulator.gov.uk/-/media/thepensionsregulator/files/import/pdf/pension-scams-action-pack.ashx

may be of interest.

Jeffmusicals

Malthusian said:

It may be that the better SSAS providers decline to take such funds, in a similar way to the way personal pension providers do.

The advantage of the SSAS route is that you don't need any provider at all. I believe that is why it is now being routinely proposed as the backstop option. You need a Scheme Administrator but they do not have to be professionals.

(If I had a DB pension I wanted to transfer against advice, I would be trying the stakeholder pension route first, but I understand why people are discounting that and referring exclusively to SSASes. The single provider left in the direct-to-consumer arena - so far as we know - could withdraw at any time. So you need to be prepared to either follow the SSAS route or give it up as not worth the faff)

For me the biggest worry about going down the SSAS route is where to turn to for professional, balanced advice rather that relying on Google’s Ad Words bidding to make the decision for me. Lot’s of places offering to do them but so many appear to be a little dubious.
I know that referrals are a no-no here but any general advice on who might be “more legit” 😀. Oh and also thanks everyone for not judging me as much as I thought you would. It gave me a warm fuzzy feeling..or that could just be my age..

Diplodicus

Malthusian said:

It may be that the better SSAS providers decline to take such funds, in a similar way to the way personal pension providers do.

The advantage of the SSAS route is that you don't need any provider at all. I believe that is why it is now being routinely proposed as the backstop option. You need a Scheme Administrator but they do not have to be professionals.

Seemingly a workable option as proposed by the DB pension transfer advice industry. But who should the insistent client assay for an SSAS provider? 

Throw us a crumb.

xylophone

But who should the insistent client assay for an SSAS provider? 

Google is his friend?

https://www.ftadviser.com/sipp/2018/01/04/best-sipps-and-ssas-named/#:~:text=Among the best Ssas providers,Management, Xafinity and James Hay.

Among the best Ssas providers were Barnett Waddingham, Berkeley Burke, Curtis Banks, Dentons Pension Management, Xafinity and James Hay.

Diplodicus

Uh huh. So, taking the first mentioned

An initial fee of £750 plus VAT is payable on production of the Scheme Establishment documentation and an additional £500 plus VAT is payable once the scheme has been registered with HM Revenue & Customs and the bank account has been set up. Our fee for Scheme Establishment is £1,250 plus VAT.

Correct me if wrong, a client would have to set this up before committing to the much higher fees of a (I)FA. Otherwise, on a (I)FA recommendation not to transfer, the insistent client would be quite unable to effect a transfer on their CETV. 

Am I missing a step in the process?