Howdens' Kitchens.

DeborahOsborne

Firstly I owe an apology to this group; as was correctly pointed out, I hijacked somebody else's question.  Please accept my apology.

I am or rather was, a farmer.  Now disabled physically but mind still active when medications allow.  Before farming for myself, I worked in the Banking Industry (not The City), in various 'specialties'.  I am the daughter of a farmer.

I used to have an account at Howden's when my eyes were turned towards farming, the house was a working farm house, in the kitchen with muddy boots and stinking of lambing, muck spreading etc.  I was never asked about my suitability for installing anything.  Howden's happily sold to me, delivered, took away etc.

Then I accepted my realities of my disabilities and after finding someone good enough to take over my land, my eyes turned towards the farmhouse.  Well, it wasn't that anymore, my home, my prison as it were.   Hate the look of disability aids that I require, handles etc, so spent a lot of time and design working around my personal needs.

The Kitchen:
The builder recommended Howden's, as it was known for being designed well for the fitter's requirements, and they gave good service. 
I went into Howden's and gave them a set of requirements to meet;

I want only three 'statement' pieces.
Contemporary/Linear. 
Colour Dove Grey.
1 Set of drawers. Max 600mm as I needed to leave room between my ancient Rayburn and the side of the drawers.  Rayburn gets rather hot when the wind is in a certain direction; converted her (the Rayburn back to wood, solid fuel.)  No I didn't pay for the conversion kit; got it handmade at the local Agri Engineers.  Brilliant job.  
2 X 1000mm half height wall cabinets.
All soft close and soft fully open.  That way it is feasible for me to use despite (in spite of - never know which to use), of my every increasing disabilities. 
I want, top of the range as, this is the last time I'll do my kitchen in my lifetime.

The bottom half of the kitchen is handmade as a solid wooden worktop with open shelves underneath (sort of Georgian, Victorian?), which would then be covered with a really nice fabric.  These shelves are used to be able to get off the floor; I need to climb up something.  Hand holds don't have to be blue and white plastic. 

Howden's designed and delivered; oh dear.
I had paid the time of some craftsmen (it is a craft, when done well),  for a period of time, an allowance being made for fitting  a total of 3 units.  This is where I sigh....

The kitchen designed and delivered didn't fit.  It wasn't 'copper edged', that colour is rose gold.  I have exposed copper pipes on my 16th Century exposed slate wall; so the difference is VERY noticeable.  Doesn't that make it sound like some fine house; it isn't, it's a small farm cottage.

The builders fitted the new hall floor, doors and ran out of time waiting for Howden's to sort out their mess, so fitted what little they could of the kitchen and went.  Booked now until 2022.  One of builders made sure they were with me at home when the designer came out to rectify 'the situation'.  10 months on it's not been rectified, anything but.

I loathe the cabinets and the draws.  The soft open and close don't work as advertised and the fitting are cheap and nasty.  I have written off the cost of these units in my head and will replace with something utterly different.  This puts me in a unique position.  A dangerous one.

Howden's seem (from what I've read), use 'sue the builder' to get things put right, which at initial glance seems the only action available to dissatisfied end clients.

I disagree.  Unfair Contract?  Obligations of Guarantee; it's Howden's that gives that guarantee, not the Builder.  They failed to design to my stated needs; my conversation was with Howden's, not the builder.  If they hide behind the skirts of only selling to Tradesmen to ensure fitting, then where is their responsibility to ensure the adequacy of the Tradesmen involved.  You can't have it both ways.  No-where in their blurb do they warn they do not check the Tradesmen involved.  It's part of their advertising.  Yes I will be contacting The Advertising Agency; a few bit's I think need clarification.  Trading Standards too.

I paid Howden's directly, so under some Contract Law; there Contract is with me, not my Builder.
The goods aren't up to scratch.
The designers don't know their own product.
So much has been delivered and taken away without delivery notes, collection notes, Howden's are relying on me to tell them what has been used and needs paying for; they owe me money.  I've kept within their terms of service, they haven't met theirs.
No I don't accept 'Under Consumer Law' I don't have a case.
I have been taught how to read Legislation myself, research etc.

I have formally rejected the kitchen supplied.
I am giving them what they require so the steps have been taken for me to be able to switch to the Small Claims system.
Small Claims Court should NOT involve Solicitors; set up for the ordinary person.  You just need to know how to build a case, supply the documentation in a form a Court is used to.  Had a lot of experience doing that.
I just need a specialised Solicitor to advise me of my various legal options.   I don't actually care if I win or not. 

For me it is a point of principle.  I am being a guinea pig and happy to do so. During this personal journey, if I find out stuff that might be helpful to others, then I will gladly pass it on.  That was my initial intent.

I do know that each branch of Howden's is individually responsible for returns, refunds etc. with Howden's Group.  It comes off that branches bottom line, which directly effects promotions, bonuses.  Which seems a little unfair as it's the quality of the goods manufactured under Howden's Group name that are at fault.  So I've started taking it up the line.  Within The Law, not their complaints procedures, the ones laid down by Statute. I've started writing a press release to be issued to Which, various consumer advocates etc.  I've also taken photo's of things that break Health & Safety regulations.  As I said, more than one way to skin a cat. 

If you have had problems, please, please, tell Trading Standards about it; enough complaints, it gets to the top of their pile.

If you paid by Credit Card, like I did, let the Credit Card Company know.
   

ssparks2003

So do you have a question? If you the vent and praise board may be better. 

bris

Howdens supply ready made bog standard units like all the other sheds, they do not make bespoke units to customer sizes so I am confused as to why they don't fit. You gave them the requirements which were 3 units, pretty difficult to get those sizes wrong. 

You want bespoke but went to Howdens, they supply off the shelf ranges of which are on display in the show room you went to, didn't you pick what you wanted?

Where does the builder fit in this? If he can't make 3 bog standard units fit then the sizing was wrong in the first place, it's not rocket science, a 1000mm unit fits in a 1000mm gap. Who got the sizing wrong?

Lastly something you have already been told, you are not a consumer, you buy from Howdens as a trader, they very much deliberately cut out the consumers from the chain of supply.

DeborahOsborne

ssparks2003 said:

So do you have a question? If you the vent and praise board may be better. 

Thank you so much for your kind words and advice.

Rosa_Damascena

Bearing in mind there is no fairy with a magic wand, lets start with what you would reasonably like Howdens to do. Can you share that with us in a sentence please?

DeborahOsborne

bris said:My Replies

Howdens supply ready made bog standard units like all the other sheds, they do not make bespoke units to customer sizes so I am confused as to why they don't fit. You gave them the requirements which were 3 units, pretty difficult to get those sizes wrong. One of 1000mm wall cupboards was 1- 1.5 out in one of the 'right angles' prism; which is quite a feat of engineering; no obvious gapping etc.  This was the actual carcass, so the surround couldn't be made to fit keeping Linear lines.  If a whole batch (looks like it is a batch , as the labelling suggests so), then Howden's should notify the Tradesmen they have supplied.  A Duty of Care?

You want bespoke but went to Howdens, they supply off the shelf ranges of which are on display in the show room you went to, didn't you pick what you wanted? Very small showroom, rely on catalogues.  They supply units individually to 'make up' the design that fits any kitchen. I wanted three units.   

Where does the builder fit in this? If he can't make 3 bog standard units fit then the sizing was wrong in the first place, it's not rocket science, a 1000mm unit fits in a 1000mm gap. Who got the sizing wrong?  As said carcass manufactured incorrectly; so gloss surround with Linear lines, didn't fit with the lines being totally parallel.   The Designer got the sizes wrong, she didn't realise the edgings added onto the overall sizing.  Product knowledge or lack there of.   So that type of kitchen was rejected.  Designer came out; said they could supply the high gloss/glass, in Dove Grey.  Surrounds taken, new delivery of new design.  Couldn't deliver the correct fixings for the soft opening & close; about 7 different deliveries of bits, many the same.  Had to look up fitters catalogues to supply Howden's with part numbers and order codes....  Told no insert for set of draws by Designer after her second pick.  Builders said  yes they do; I move to speaking to The Branch Manager at this point.  Manager says, yes we do and delivers the cheapest plastic thing.  I later found out there is a wooden fronted one.   Then change of Branch Manager as branch is having lots of problems.  By this time my craftsmen had run out of time with me and had to move on. They'd fitted an Oak floor, fitted handmade Oak doors and solid Oak thresholds.  To do that in this small 16th Century slate cottage, with a 70's flat roofed extension, with a stream running through the slate below ground, cottage sits directly on soil, extension has damp proofing; there isn't a straight line anywhere, and the differing levels of damp during the seasons...  Oh lol.  I had the kitchen walls I am using plastered to allow a flat surface; does the overall wall lean a tad?  Yep, that's why I employ craftsmen, they can make things look perfect.   

Lastly something you have already been told, you are not a consumer, you buy from Howdens as a trader, they very much deliberately cut out the consumers from the chain of supply.  I agree.  I posted on this thread, not to challenge anybody, or to take over somebody's else's.  Where I live, this type of thing isn't tolerated; it's a small rural (and I mean proper rural) town, where everybody knows or knows of,  just about everybody within their sector.  As I used to farm and had children and was renovating both the farm and the farmhouse (all derelict), I got to know a lot of people.  So if someone posts things on the local farming, town, beach, sales of equipment, are we going to allow the Town Council to do this?  etc, etc.  We just all join in a 'conversation' rather than a straight reply.   Obviously this is not the case here.  Here things are still done 'on the back of a fag packet', by verbal agreement, a shake of the hand is a contract.  If you aren't tidy then you're very quickly ostracised.  When I search for Howden's Head Office number, this thread came up; I thought "oh, so it isn't just me then?" and posted as we do around here. 

When the local Tesco's suggested stopping using the locally produced milk and potatoes, within 3 days we'd got organized and Tesco's car park was full of tractors and equipment, with the local press, at a time that didn't inconvenience the morning workers going into town.  The town knew before Tesco did and the farmers happily gave out free potatoes.  Same day, Tesco gave news that this new policy wasn't going through and gave to some local charities as an apology. 

It's about time somebody took this 'accepted behaviour' to task.  I am going to do just that.  Howden's new Manager is great; he'll get Howden's back to what is used to be.  When I first fitted out the cottage, I personally fitted that kitchen; my requirement then were bog standard with easy clean, a farmhouse kitchen, entirely practical and not upset if it gets scratched, dented etc.  The Rayburn was used to warm lambs...  Now I want a home, so if they mess it up, can't get it right after ten months of trying, I will not stop.  If I have to get a Legal Agreement signed by the builder so I can Legally act as his Agent in this matter, so be it. 

 If I win, do I let this thread know?  And how I did it?  The locals want to know; useful info for another time.

DeborahOsborne

I now loathe the units; I will get them off my walls and replace them with something else.  That is the stage I am at.
I have asked Howden's to wipe the board clean; I'll stand the extra builders costs, - you take back and refund your units, fittings etc.  These are additional builders costs to come back time and again to try and sort this ten month fiasco out.  The builders were booked for a specific amount of time, they have come out after hours (not charging a higher rate), come for discussions with Howden's staff etc.