MSE ignoring Crypto prepaid debit cards

The_Urbanite

I've had all the crypto debit cards that are worth having in the UK.

These products are complicated and technical and you need to be of a certain mindset to get the best out of them. There is also risk attached, because you do have to stake (tie up) real money for any period between 7 days and a year in order to get the cashback card. The cashback is invariably paid in crypto.

The technical things that need to be understood;

• The cost of getting the card. The stake amount plus the amount it costs to obtain the crypto to stake.
• The cost of using the card. It sometimes costs money to load and spend on them. 
• The cost of withdrawing your cashback.
• These costs will eat into the cashback paid and with lower cashback rates can certainly exceed it.
  
• CGT implications if you earn a lot of cashback.
• The risks involved - the value of your stake will change. It could blow up 6x, or it could be 10% of what you put in when you want out.
• Teething problems and reliability issues.
• Exclusions from cashback - all of the cards I know of (now) have a list of transactions they won't pay out on. It varies between cards but these exclusions can include paying utilities, supermarket spend, paying your rent, buying souvenirs etc. They can change without warning and they have a habit of monitoring transactions and deciding not to pay out on transactions that are not listed as excluded.
• KYC - you have to put a lot of trust in these people because they can block your account and stonewall you

All of that said, if you're the type of person who can get on with these cards, they can be exceptionally lucrative. For mass market however, simplicity and transparency are generally quite lacking so that has to be considered when promoting things.

pphillips

The_Urbanite said:

I've had all the crypto debit cards that are worth having in the UK.

These products are complicated and technical and you need to be of a certain mindset to get the best out of them. There is also risk attached, because you do have to stake (tie up) real money for any period between 7 days and a year in order to get the cashback card. The cashback is invariably paid in crypto.

The technical things that need to be understood;

• The cost of getting the card. The stake amount plus the amount it costs to obtain the crypto to stake.
• The cost of using the card. It sometimes costs money to load and spend on them. 
• The cost of withdrawing your cashback.
• These costs will eat into the cashback paid and with lower cashback rates can certainly exceed it.
  
• CGT implications if you earn a lot of cashback.
• The risks involved - the value of your stake will change. It could blow up 6x, or it could be 10% of what you put in when you want out.
• Teething problems and reliability issues.
• Exclusions from cashback - all of the cards I know of (now) have a list of transactions they won't pay out on. It varies between cards but these exclusions can include paying utilities, supermarket spend, paying your rent, buying souvenirs etc. They can change without warning and they have a habit of monitoring transactions and deciding not to pay out on transactions that are not listed as excluded.
• KYC - you have to put a lot of trust in these people because they can block your account and stonewall you

All of that said, if you're the type of person who can get on with these cards, they can be exceptionally lucrative. For mass market however, simplicity and transparency are generally quite lacking so that has to be considered when promoting things.

Some interesting points here:

If someone is technically minded and reasonably intelligent, they should be able to find a way to make the cards work them. The two companies I mentioned in my original post do not require a stake to earn cashback.

1. I would be put off if I had to pay for a physical card but if the rewards were worth the stake I wouldn't mind staking and I wouldn't really want to unstake if this meant losing some or all of the rewards.
2. I would not get a crypto card that charges me a monthly fee or a fee to make purchases in the UK. I don't mind it if there are fees for withdrawing cash or foreign spending because I don’t intend to use the card for something that is counterproductive towards the rewards I am receiving.
3. Yes, when you sell crypto or use it to top up your card there is normally a conversation fee.
4. Personally, I would look to avoid or mitigate costs to maximise cashback and rewards.
5. I  don't believe that's correct, in UK there are no CGT implications for earning crypto, the implications only come when you dispose of the crypto. Most people don't use any of their CGT annual allowance anyway because they keep their capital investments in an isa.
6. As with any other investment, the value could go up or down but it's important to understand that cryptocurrency is especially volatile.
7. In this regard, I would strongly recommend always carrying a back up form of payment.
8. I think non-crypto cashback cards have exclusions as well. As far as I am aware, the main reasons for unrestricted cashback being declined is because the seller used the wrong merchant category code,  the purchase was a business expense or for some other fraudulent use / cashback abuse.
9. I think that trust is very important, but that banks and credit card companies can also block an account.

I completely agree with your closing remarks, which are well put. If you have a plan and know what you're doing, it can indeed be very rewarding. 

Zanderman

pphillips said:

Crypto cards in my opinion (if used sensibly) can provide a much more generous reward system than any of the mainstream cards, so I can't understand why MSE are shying away from them.

The_Urbanite said:

All of that said, if you're the type of person who can get on with these cards, they can be exceptionally lucrative. For mass market however, simplicity and transparency are generally quite lacking so that has to be considered when promoting things.

pphillips said:

I completely agree with your closing remarks, which are well put. If you have a plan and know what you're doing, it can indeed be very rewarding. 

If you completely agree with The_Urbanites closing remarks, which explain why crypto currency debit cards are hard to explain to the mass market, then surely you do understand why 'MSE are shying away from them'. 

They are too complicated (and indeed too risky) a product for general promotions of the type MSE do.

pphillips

Zanderman said:

pphillips said:

Crypto cards in my opinion (if used sensibly) can provide a much more generous reward system than any of the mainstream cards, so I can't understand why MSE are shying away from them.

The_Urbanite said:

All of that said, if you're the type of person who can get on with these cards, they can be exceptionally lucrative. For mass market however, simplicity and transparency are generally quite lacking so that has to be considered when promoting things.

pphillips said:

I completely agree with your closing remarks, which are well put. If you have a plan and know what you're doing, it can indeed be very rewarding. 

If you completely agree with The_Urbanites closing remarks, which explain why crypto currency debit cards are hard to explain to the mass market, then surely you do understand why 'MSE are shying away from them'. 

They are too complicated (and indeed too risky) a product for general promotions of the type MSE do.

Yes - but unless I had a time machine, I could not have read The_Urbanite's closing remarks before I started this post.

My own thoughts were that they are not overly complicated - certainly less complicated than matched betting - but I am prepared to be corrected.

jbrassy

pphillips said:

Zanderman said:

pphillips said:

Crypto cards in my opinion (if used sensibly) can provide a much more generous reward system than any of the mainstream cards, so I can't understand why MSE are shying away from them.

The_Urbanite said:

All of that said, if you're the type of person who can get on with these cards, they can be exceptionally lucrative. For mass market however, simplicity and transparency are generally quite lacking so that has to be considered when promoting things.

pphillips said:

I completely agree with your closing remarks, which are well put. If you have a plan and know what you're doing, it can indeed be very rewarding. 

If you completely agree with The_Urbanites closing remarks, which explain why crypto currency debit cards are hard to explain to the mass market, then surely you do understand why 'MSE are shying away from them'. 

They are too complicated (and indeed too risky) a product for general promotions of the type MSE do.

Yes - but unless I had a time machine, I could not have read The_Urbanite's closing remarks before I started this post.

My own thoughts were that they are not overly complicated - certainly less complicated than matched betting - but I am prepared to be corrected.

Crypto cards are a lot more complicated than matched betting. With crypto cards, rewards are paid in cryptocurrencies, the future value of which cannot be known. Further, if you have to stake crypto to obtain higher rates of cashback, the value on this initial stake can fall substantially meaning you make back less than you put in. 

With matched betting, the standard bet and get offers are easy to understand and are risk-free. In other words, you place your qualifying bets and you know what your initial losses are. Then, once you've qualified for your free bet, you know how much profit you will make from your free bet. 

born_again

How many times are we getting the same post?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6288346/are-there-any-credit-cards-that-allow-buying-crypto#latest

From forum rules..

 please don't create duplicate posts on or across multiple threads. Flooding (repeated posting aiming to dominate or overwhelm a page) will be treated as spam.

pphillips

born_again said:

How many times are we getting the same post?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6288346/are-there-any-credit-cards-that-allow-buying-crypto#latest

From forum rules..

 please don't create duplicate posts on or across multiple threads. Flooding (repeated posting aiming to dominate or overwhelm a page) will be treated as spam.

That post is a different subject matter, it's about buying crypto with a credit card.

It seem you interpreting the rules as saying "everything crypto related has to stay on one post".

born_again

pphillips said:

born_again said:

How many times are we getting the same post?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6288346/are-there-any-credit-cards-that-allow-buying-crypto#latest

From forum rules..

 please don't create duplicate posts on or across multiple threads. Flooding (repeated posting aiming to dominate or overwhelm a page) will be treated as spam.

That post is a different subject matter, it's about buying crypto with a credit card.

It seem you interpreting the rules as saying "everything crypto related has to stay on one post".

Apologies. It was another poster that started that thread.

phillw

We gave up plastic straws because it was killing the environment and then started using bitcoin.

I hope all crypto goes to 0 before the electricity required makes it impossible for us to power our own homes.

The_Urbanite

Sadly I have been banned from Crypto.com. They didn't say much about why, other than my usage of the account didn't meet their requirements for user conduct. A few things I suspect they don't like seeing;

• Topping up to the maximum monthly limit with a credit card
• Spending the maximum monthly limit immediately with non-exempt merchants
• Buying cryptocurrency up to the weekly limit for free with a credit card
• Converting to GBP with zero spread or markup and withdrawing for free

They introduced many restrictions to the cashback scheme but some people find ways around them faster than they can add them. I guess it got to the stage where they decided it was cheaper for them to simply close the account.

The hidden costs of using the app are horrendous - they disguise these by giving a poor exchange rate when buying and selling most cryptocurrencies. But the app interface allows people who are at an elementary level in the crypto game to get involved with the mania - these people probably don't realise they can do the same thing without paying dearly for what they're doing.

Wish them all the best!