Register late self assessment didn't need to

dale_hopkinson

Hi, my wife used to be self employed.

We setup a limited company together and she deregistered for self assessment and gets paid from the company through paye. 

She had a dividend of £1000 in 18-19 which was not declared. All other income is paye. Total under the allowance so no tax was ever due.

We are now getting a mortgage and they are insisting on SA302.

Should she have been registered for SA all along? We have an accountant and he has never raised this.

Is it possible to generate an SA302? Or can we register 'late' for SA and avoid the £1300 fine seeing as it was not a requirement to register?

Many thanks 

Dazed_and_C0nfused

There is no need to register for Self Assessment just to declare £1,000 dividend income unless you have extra tax to pay as a result of this income.

Most people will simply be taxed at 0% (there is no "allowance" for dividends) and owe nothing but some will be taxed at 0% and owe extra due to the impact on their adjusted net income.

You cannot get an SA302 without completing a Self Assessment tax return.  But there is no requirement to complete a Self Assessment tax return if she does not owe any extra tax.

Irrespective of this why do you think a £1,300 fine could occur?  Where have you read something that suggested this was possible?

Are you certain no extra tax is due?  

dale_hopkinson

Yes no tax due because it is all well below her personal allowance.

Hmrc website lists is as the penalty for registering for sa now for the 2019-2020 tax year with £0 tax overdue.

So at least we haven't done anything wrong.

Halifax are adamant they need an SA302 because in their eyes she is self employed by owning more than 20% of a limited company. They won't budge on this so registering retrospectively seems to be out only option.

Is it possible to register for SA now and submit 18-19 with £0 tax due and only a £1000 dividend income without getting penalised?

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Hmrc website lists is as the penalty for registering for sa now for the 2019-2020 tax year with £0 tax overdue.

HMRC no longer has a website.  Do you mean gov.uk?

If so can you post a link as a £1,300 penalty for registering for Self Assessment isn't something I've come across before

dale_hopkinson

https://www.gov.uk/estimate-self-assessment-penalties/y/2019-20/online/2021-08-21/2021-08-21/0.0

However I noticed here it says if you'll get a penalty if you NEED to send a tax return and miss the dealing so maybe I'm OK.
https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns/penalties

Dazed_and_C0nfused

dale_hopkinson said:

https://www.gov.uk/estimate-self-assessment-penalties/y/2019-20/online/2021-08-21/2021-08-21/0.0

However I noticed here it says if you'll get a penalty if you NEED to send a tax return and miss the dealing so maybe I'm OK.
https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns/penalties

I think you are getting very confused.

Your original post was about registering late for Self Assessment but you have now posted a link regarding penalties for late filing of a return.  

Has your wife been issued with a tax return for 2018:19?  Your original post didn't make any mention of this.

dale_hopkinson

Sorry I am new to this.

She hasn't been issued with a tax return.

If she registers for self assessment and then files a tax return for the £1000 dividend for 2018-2019 and a £0 return for 2019-2020 will these not be classed as late returns?

Dazed_and_C0nfused

They will be late returns if she doesn't file by the deadline.  The first penalty would be £100 and if it still wasn't filed eventually there would be more penalties.

If the returns (other than for 2020:21) are issued say today them they would have to be filed by 21 November 2021.  If you look at the paper SA100 on gov.uk it should show the filing deadlines on the front page of the return.

Although seemingly not relevant in this instance the payment date for any tax due would be the standard date for each tax year.  So for 2018:19 interest would be charged from 1 February 2020 for any tax due that was paid late.  The fact she may file the return on time does not change this.

I also think you are a bit confused about the purpose of a return.  It isn't to just declare a dividend, it is to declare all sources of taxable income.  And claim any relevant allowances/reliefs.  For example if she has previously applied for Marriage Allowance for the tax year a return relates to then she should reflect that on the return.

dale_hopkinson

OK so how do I actually submit an sa100 for 2019-2020? 

She has a gateway log in and a utr, but is no longer registered for sa.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Well the logical starting point is to register for Self Assessment and then HMRC will issue a return or notice to file a return.

Then she can file the returns online.

If she is in a hurry she could make a start by pulling together all relevant information ready to complete the returns. 

6 April 2019 seems a lifetime ago now so the sooner she starts thinking about this the easier it will be when she comes to file the returns.

Jeremy535897

I think that they will accept either a form SA302 or accounts that show the amounts paid. See:https://www.halifax-intermediaries.co.uk/print/criteria/mortgage/default.aspx?isfad=0


A little before half way down it says:

If any of the following applies, the customer must be keyed as self employed;

• Where the customer has a shareholding of 25% or more
• If joint customers own 25% or more between them, treat both customers as self-employed (both applicants need to hold a % share)
• A sub-contractor who derives income from more than one contract
• A customer has a partnership interest in a business, i.e. income is not PAYE, irrespective of the percentage shareholding
• A customer owns a franchise
• A customer employed by a Private Limited Company (LTD) who receives a salary (PAYE) and dividends as part of their remuneration package
• A customer who is in a Limited Liability Partnership (LLP) and receives a share of Net Profits

For applicants who are classed as self-employed, you should capture all of their income under the field "Net Profit". Whilst some self-employed income we allow is not truly 'net profit', we use this field in our affordability assessment and in our policy rules. The Net profit field should be completed as following:

• Limited company key total of salary/remuneration + dividends drawn (as shown on Tax Calculation)
• Partnership (or LLP) key profit share (percentage of) Sole trader key net profits
• Sole trader key net profits

We require self employed income details to be entered for the latest 2 years trading. Figures should only be entered for each full year of trading. Where the customer has been trading for less than 2 years but for at least one full year the application can be considered and accounts are then our preferred method of income verification. Additional information may be required to support any application.

Acceptable Income Verification Documents

Latest 2 Years HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) Tax Calculation accompanied by corresponding Tax Year Overviews –The year the Tax Calculation relates to and the Customer's name/initials must show. Tax Calculations can be obtained from the customer's online self-assessment account.

The following details must be visible on the online Tax Calculation:

• HMRC logo
• Unique Tax Reference (UTR)
• Customer's name
• Tax year (most recent no older than 18 months old), and the following wording:
  • "This is a copy of information held on your official online SA tax account with HMRC", and
  • "Submission is 100% complete."

Online tax assessments produced by accountants' commercial software (accompanied by corresponding Tax Year Overviews) are acceptable provided they show the following:

• Unique Tax Reference number
• Customer's name
• Tax Year (most recent no older than 18 months old).

The tax due figure on the Tax Calculation and Tax Year Overview will usually exactly match. If there is a difference in the tax figure we will consider these but may require updated documents.

Latest 2 Years Full Accounts – must be finalised and clearly show the net profit (for Sole Traders), share of net profit (for Partnerships) or salary & dividends (for Directors of Limited companies). Profit & Loss statements alone are not acceptable. Where the customer has been trading for less than 2 years, we require accounts for the full year of trading.

The year end on all documentation must be the most recent and must not be dated more than 18 months before the date of application.

In addition for self-employed incomes the latest 3 months' bank statements for the account which is used for business purposes may be required.

I think this reads as an alternative to the SA302.