initial parking

cambi0

Hi all and a big thank you to the contribuotrs of this board, it is very much appreciated

following a trip to cornwall i was sent a NTK for an unpaid tariff by Initial parking.

The crux of the contravention is they contended the vehicle entered the car park, took 7-9 minutes to pay and then upon leaving took 7-9 minutes over the allotted hours paid ticket time to cross the anpr patrolled exit. Nothing seems unreasonable for a busy and tight car park in august with 2 kids in the car. Fortunately I kept the ticket - the original NTK did not state any ticket time details!.

I appealed stating this was counter to the BPA grace period guidleines of 10 minutes to enter park and pay and the same on exit. As expected this has been refused and simply states I overstaid by the 14-18 minutes over the paid time.

Now i am irritated as to my mind i have done absolutely nothing wrong buit have to waste my time on these clowns.

Next step is an angry MP letter and a popla appeal, for which I will use the templates/ guidance provided.

a few questions if someone would be kind enough to answer please

- how do i go about finding the landowner for the car park? ive done searches but cant find anything so far as id like to see if it can be nipped in the bud by common sense.

- regarding the popla appeal, in addition to the above, and the multiple other points to raise in the guidance, on the anpr images provided, on entry the number plate adjacant to the car image is of the front plate, whilst the car image shows the rear plate. On exit, the same front plate image is shown adjacant to the front of car image (so correct). Equally there is no date stamp on the images. Is the relevant or worth noting?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated

Many thanks!

Cam

KeithP

cambi0 said:

- how do i go about finding the landowner for the car park? ive done searches but cant find anything so far as id like to see if it can be nipped in the bud by common sense.

Less than an hour ago @Umkomaas posted this...

SOME IDEAS ON DETERMINING WHO OWNS THE LAND

D_P_Dance

Read this and complain to your MP and the  tourist office.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/03/waiting-for-space-is-not-parking.html

Redx

I think the surf shop owns it , but try the Newquay Facebook groups etc , plus that post Umkomaas posts here's regularly

Please fill in the public government consultation too , within the next 6 days , nothing will change until they change it , which is currently in progress

Fruitcake

Which car park was this as Initial operate at several? I have a copy of the Fistral Beach car park contract if it was that one. 

You quoted an earlier version of the BPA Grace Periods. It has now been tightened up to make it impossible to comply.

I don't suppose you have dash-cam footage, or have location data enabled on an occupant's smartphone do you? That will show how long it took to find a parking space and how long it took to leave.

Your comments about the ANPR images should be included in your PoPLA appeal. Have you checked the website as if you were going to pay (but obviously don't) to see what other images they have.

You can send an SAR now to flush out all the images of your car, but they may not arrive in time to help with the PoPLA appeal.

cambi0

Fruitcake said:

Which car park was this as Initial operate at several? I have a copy of the Fistral Beach car park contract if it was that one. 

You quoted an earlier version of the BPA Grace Periods. It has now been tightened up to make it impossible to comply.

I don't suppose you have dash-cam footage, or have location data enabled on an occupant's smartphone do you? That will show how long it took to find a parking space and how long it took to leave.

Your comments about the ANPR images should be included in your PoPLA appeal. Have you checked the website as if you were going to pay (but obviously don't) to see what other images they have.

You can send an SAR now to flush out all the images of your car, but they may not arrive in time to help with the PoPLA appeal.

thanks, was moushole

i see the latest bpa guidance effectively gives no grace period on entry and ten on leaving, so how is one supposed to time travel to make that work and pay before you enter and park?

so in terms of popla its unlikely they will uphold the appeal so im either going to have to go to court or pay i suppose?

Redx

Court won't be happy unless you exhausted every avenue , including a landowner cancellation and also POPLA

Be foolish to not even try !!

cambi0

Redx said:

Court won't be happy unless you exhausted every avenue , including a landowner cancellation and also POPLA

Be foolish to not even try !!

Yes, I'm trying to find the landowner and will be sending mp complaints about this scam system today as well- it must be borderline illegal to charge you for consideration period.

Appreciate it's only another £40 to appeal and maybe a bit more to follow up, just assuming popla will dismiss due to their rules of time travel requirements upon entry. This being the case - what relevance is the time stamp on the parking ticket - surely this should output your time of entry based on the camera otherwise you are just guessing... shysters

checking the images, they have a rear shot from a distance and a front alongside it but no obvious link between the two.

I don't have dashcam or phone data for the event as my dashcam overwrites every 6 or 7 hours, unfortunately.

Redx

An NCP court case determined that the parking period starts at the point of sale , so when the button is pressed on the PDT machine , grace periods are useless in the new BPA CoP , were better in the old ones and will hopefully be better in next year's government CoP. Judges tend to me more lenient and accept mitigating circumstances like delays and queues etc

Check the parking prankster website for a case 7 years ago at Fistral beach , looking for a space is not parking

Make sure that you elaborate on grace periods to account for any delays

Bear in mind this could be useful evidence in any future court case , where your POPLA appeal becomes evidence of good intentions. Judges like to see honest intentions , hopefully you can convince Popla of the same , or even the landowner

This is why it's important that everyone fill in the government consultation before Friday

cambi0

Redx said:

An NCP court case determined that the parking period starts at the point of sale , so when the button is pressed on the PDT machine , grace periods are useless in the new BPA CoP , were better in the old ones and will hopefully be better in next year's government CoP. Judges tend to me more lenient and accept mitigating circumstances like delays and queues etc

Check the parking prankster website for a case 7 years ago at Fistral beach , looking for a space is not parking

Make sure that you elaborate on grace periods to account for any delays

Bear in mind this could be useful evidence in any future court case , where your POPLA appeal becomes evidence of good intentions. Judges like to see honest intentions , hopefully you can convince Popla of the same , or even the landowner

This is why it's important that everyone fill in the government consultation before Friday

sounds like a grey area! so the ticket could be considered the start of the 'contract' period (as it should rather than the entry, assuming a reasonable gap between the 2 I suppose), do you have any info on the ncp case?, I'll google it anyway to add to the list. I saw the fistral info, thanks for that, same sort of situation if you are entering, looking, waiting etc, I'm just a bit wary as the case is so long ago (before the bpa cop changes) but worth referencing.

I have filled in the consultation, sounds like they paring co's have lobbied heavily on that.

Le_Kirk

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1 June 2019 at 2:03AM edited 1 June 2019 at 6:37PM <<<< LINK