Victim of romance fraud

Cardriver45

born_again said:

TBH, and this is not defending @colsten

You can not imagine how cynical people that work in the banks departments that deal with this are. As I know exactly. So for them to pick up on the signals from the transactions & flag them up, says to me just how convincing your mother must have been with her explanation's.
They can see what is going on and can only advise. There is only so much they can do, if a customer says it's all OK. They have  to let it go.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-56984844

Despite being warned & advised that it was a scam this person continued to pay the other person. She is now trying to claim the money back despite being warned by both of the banks.

She wasn't warned or advised it was a scam until the police came round to her house last week after 11 months and it was a total shock to her. They were only contacted because another victim's family contacted them after they had been paying out for a while. No one from the bank ever advised her that it was a potential scam as far as I know. The bank didn't even query the regular cryptocurrency payments  She then cut off contact with the suspect completely even though he tried to message her again when he realised before she blocked him and tried to phone her. 

I'll know the full details once I've heard the phone recordings.

She wasn't even told by the bank staff that she wasn't allowed to receive and then send out money on her account even though she told them that she was doing exactly that.

All the bank had to do was contact the bank that was sending money to my Mum's account and then they could have checked with their customer if it was genuine. 

Why did the bank continue to allow my Mum to receive and send these payments after she told them that was what she was doing when it is against the terms and conditions of her account?

They didn't even advise her that it was against these terms and conditions of her account and just said OK and continued to let her do it.

colsten

The banks can't win. 

If they keep a light touch and respect their customers without querying them much, they get accused of not having shown enough duty of care.

If they interfere with people's transactions, they get accused of putting their nose into people's private business for no good reason.

There's a whole Facebook Group, with now 5,761 members, dedicated to complaints from people who had their Natwest accounts blocked or closed. Their fraud team have given Natwest quite a bad reputation. That's why I was wondering how your mum was able to convince Natwest that all was in order. Hopefully it will all become clearer when you have got the SAR.

Cardriver45

One of the things that convinced her it wasn't a scam was the fact the bank said they had reviewed her account and then said it was OK, and unfroze it again. So she was reassured by this and said that the bank has checked and it's OK, so it must be. If they had said something like this is suspicious and we suspect that it may be a romance scam or something, then maybe she would have realised.

She even told the bank what the money was for and that the suspect was stuck in South Africa.

She worked for years with abused kids and knows all about grooming and we have often talked about scams. We even did reverse checks on the pictures she had of the suspect and nothing came up. Even the police said this was a very sophisticated scam and the bank bought the story without questioning if it could be a romance scam.

When she told the bank about the suspect's account being frozen they even replied that banks do that.

There was never any advice about romance scams and why didn't a manager phone her and talk more to see if there was more going on?

And by the way it isn't her that is trying to claim the money back as she just wants it all over with and is really embarrassed by it all. It's the rest of the family who feel she was let down.

The money she gave wasn't even savings to spare. It was money she had saved up to do repairs on her house and for living on. She was so convinced she would get it back. Now she is left with a hole in the roof of her house and many other repairs that she can't now afford.

[Deleted User]

Amazingly, i find myself sympathising with Natwest. 

colsten

As terrible as her situation is, she got herself into it. She might get somewhere by trying to lay the blame on the bank, but then she might not.

Thrugelmir

Cardriver45 said:

born_again said:

TBH, and this is not defending @colsten

You can not imagine how cynical people that work in the banks departments that deal with this are. As I know exactly. So for them to pick up on the signals from the transactions & flag them up, says to me just how convincing your mother must have been with her explanation's.
They can see what is going on and can only advise. There is only so much they can do, if a customer says it's all OK. They have  to let it go.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-56984844

Despite being warned & advised that it was a scam this person continued to pay the other person. She is now trying to claim the money back despite being warned by both of the banks.

Why did the bank continue to allow my Mum to receive and send these payments after she told them that was what she was doing when it is against the terms and conditions of her account?

You don't catch criminals by immediately closing the door. You let them continue. Your mother obviously showed no sign of personal distress and wasn't at risk. 

Cardriver45

colsten said:

The banks can't win. 

If they keep a light touch and respect their customers without querying them much, they get accused of not having shown enough duty of care.

If they interfere with people's transactions, they get accused of putting their nose into people's private business for no good reason.

There's a whole Facebook Group, with now 5,761 members, dedicated to complaints from people who had their Natwest accounts blocked or closed. Their fraud team have given Natwest quite a bad reputation. That's why I was wondering how your mum was able to convince Natwest that all was in order. Hopefully it will all become clearer when you have got the SAR.

They've even unfrozen the account now that my Mum has told the fraud department was compromised and left it open. So she is now having to get them to close it. They didn't even know it was fraud until my Mum phoned them after being visited by the police. 

Cardriver45

This is what I have got her to ask for now in the SAR. She made all the calls to the bank on her mobile so the dates and times are still on there

Please supply the data about me that I am entitled to under data protection law relating to myself.

I request copies of all call recordings of phone conversations made by myself including the dates of;

5th December 2020 from 9am to 10am,
10th December 2020 from 9am to 10 am
11th December 2020 from 12.30pm to 7.30pm
14th December 2020 from 8.30am to 5.30pm
15th December 2020 from 2.30pm to 3.30pm
9th February 2021 from 10.20pm to 11pm
22nd February 2021 from 10.50pm to 11.50pm
23rd February from 7.30am to 8am

20th January 2021 from 5.30pm to 6pm

23rd July 2021 from 9.30am to 10.30am



I also request all account notes and other internal documentation relating to these conversations including what triggered them, how did the bank staff summarise the outcome, what were their conclusions etc.

[Deleted User]

Brie said:

If at any point you get proof of your mother saying she "met" (in person or online) this person and they had both suffered bereavements that in itself should signal potential fraud.  I know that people do genuinely meet in this way but it is such a common thing for fraudsters.  Consolation is a common and well know fraudster tactic.

A lonely person meeting another person for friendship, romance or 'companionship' signals potential fraud? Are you serious?! Lonely people will do lots of 'odd' things including staying in mismatched and abusive relationships.

Thrugelmir

Cardriver45 said:

5th December 2020 from 9am to 10am,
10th December 2020 from 9am to 10 am
11th December 2020 from 12.30pm to 7.30pm
14th December 2020 from 8.30am to 5.30pm
15th December 2020 from 2.30pm to 3.30pm
9th February 2021 from 10.20pm to 11pm
22nd February 2021 from 10.50pm to 11.50pm
23rd February from 7.30am to 8am

20th January 2021 from 5.30pm to 6pm

23rd July 2021 from 9.30am to 10.30am

That's a lot of calls to make for someone with no concerns. Was your mother asked to make any of these?  From the scammers viewpoint must have wondered why the account wasn't shut down earlier. Normally such activity is detected very quickly and clamped down on. 

How many transactions passed through the account?