Getting into the PCP Game

Arklight

If every schmo with the ability to sign their name on the bottom of a finance form for 3 years of  expensive, risky renting just refused to, we would all see new car prices fall like a stone because they would align with what people could afford, not what people could afford every month.

Look at what a new car costs in the US and then look at what the same new car costs in the UK. Rip Off Britain is Rip Off Britain because Brits are gullible consumers who are afraid of haggling and often barely numerate.

It's the same absurdity that drives Britain's nonsensical debt-slavery with house prices. But that's a different (and long gone) board.

BOWFER

Arklight said:

If every schmo with the ability to sign their name on the bottom of a finance form for 3 years of  expensive, risky renting just refused to, we would all see new car prices fall like a stone because they would align with what people could afford, not what people could afford every month.

Look at what a new car costs in the US and then look at what the same new car costs in the UK. Rip Off Britain is Rip Off Britain because Brits are gullible consumers who are afraid of haggling and often barely numerate.

It's the same absurdity that drives Britain's nonsensical debt-slavery with house prices. But that's a different (and long gone) board.

Utter nonsense that car prices would plummet, pure conjecture.
Comparing our car market with American says it all, anyone should realise the sheer number of buyers over there creates greater competition = cheaper
They're also obsessed with their own products, which don't have import duties on them = cheaper
It also has to be said, American cars are badly built crap = cheaper.

motorguy

Arklight said:

If every schmo with the ability to sign their name on the bottom of a finance form for 3 years of  expensive, risky renting just refused to, we would all see new car prices fall like a stone because they would align with what people could afford, not what people could afford every month.

Look at what a new car costs in the US and then look at what the same new car costs in the UK. Rip Off Britain is Rip Off Britain because Brits are gullible consumers who are afraid of haggling and often barely numerate.

It's the same absurdity that drives Britain's nonsensical debt-slavery with house prices. But that's a different (and long gone) board.

You try selling new cars at list price and see if you still think brits are gullible consumers who are afraid of haggling.  British buyers by used cars based in price (and they use the "search by lowest price first" on A/T and elsewhere to get that) and then when they get to the dealers they still expect £,£££s off. 

On new cars they will know precisely what they can get off - discounts are easily checked online.  No one pays list price for a typical car.  No one pays anywhere near it.

US car prices have different tax regimes than UK but having just had a cursory look, a new 3 series in the US starts at $40,000 

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/bmw/3-series/2020

A new 3 series in the UK starts at around £30K before discounts.  Seems broadly similar to me?

It will vary car to car, depending on where its made and tax regime.

neilmcl

Grumpy_chap said:

motorguy said:

Most people use PCP as an extended rental.  They dont want to own the car long term, therefore are happy to pay a set amount.

The running of the car then becomes a service that they pay for monthly.

Most dont view it as "i wish i had £25,000 to buy a new car", they think "I have budgetted £200 a month to spend on a car, what can that get me?"

For that way of thinking, why do people PCP rather than lease?

Two reasons. Firstly they haven't really done the research and actually considered private lease hire and secondly there are more consumer rights attached to credit finance than there is with leasing.

ComicGeek

neilmcl said:

Grumpy_chap said:

motorguy said:

Most people use PCP as an extended rental.  They dont want to own the car long term, therefore are happy to pay a set amount.

The running of the car then becomes a service that they pay for monthly.

Most dont view it as "i wish i had £25,000 to buy a new car", they think "I have budgetted £200 a month to spend on a car, what can that get me?"

For that way of thinking, why do people PCP rather than lease?

Two reasons. Firstly they haven't really done the research and actually considered private lease hire and secondly there are more consumer rights attached to credit finance than there is with leasing.

I found the best private lease hire for my current car, and took it to my local garage - they matched the monthly payments on 0% PCP.

I've now got £6k equity in my car that I'll get back when I sell it in a couple of months time. I wouldn't have that with private lease hire.

Arklight

BOWFER said:

Arklight said:

If every schmo with the ability to sign their name on the bottom of a finance form for 3 years of  expensive, risky renting just refused to, we would all see new car prices fall like a stone because they would align with what people could afford, not what people could afford every month.

Look at what a new car costs in the US and then look at what the same new car costs in the UK. Rip Off Britain is Rip Off Britain because Brits are gullible consumers who are afraid of haggling and often barely numerate.

It's the same absurdity that drives Britain's nonsensical debt-slavery with house prices. But that's a different (and long gone) board.

Utter nonsense that car prices would plummet, pure conjecture.
Comparing our car market with American says it all, anyone should realise the sheer number of buyers over there creates greater competition = cheaper
They're also obsessed with their own products, which don't have import duties on them = cheaper
It also has to be said, American cars are badly built crap = cheaper.

No, supply and demand determines price, not the number of humans with a pulse in the country of sale.

Your understanding of the American car market is, bizarrely ill informed. I have driven many different cars in the US. Some of the most common vehicles are Toyota Camrys and Nissan Altimas, followed by Kias. The Ford line is, absenting small hatches like the Focus and Fiesta,  much the same and the build quality is no better or worse than here.

Arklight

motorguy said:

Arklight said:

If every schmo with the ability to sign their name on the bottom of a finance form for 3 years of  expensive, risky renting just refused to, we would all see new car prices fall like a stone because they would align with what people could afford, not what people could afford every month.

Look at what a new car costs in the US and then look at what the same new car costs in the UK. Rip Off Britain is Rip Off Britain because Brits are gullible consumers who are afraid of haggling and often barely numerate.

It's the same absurdity that drives Britain's nonsensical debt-slavery with house prices. But that's a different (and long gone) board.

You try selling new cars at list price and see if you still think brits are gullible consumers who are afraid of haggling.  British buyers by used cars based in price (and they use the "search by lowest price first" on A/T and elsewhere to get that) and then when they get to the dealers they still expect £,£££s off. 

On new cars they will know precisely what they can get off - discounts are easily checked online.  No one pays list price for a typical car.  No one pays anywhere near it.

US car prices have different tax regimes than UK but having just had a cursory look, a new 3 series in the US starts at $40,000 

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/bmw/3-series/2020

A new 3 series in the UK starts at around £30K before discounts.  Seems broadly similar to me?

It will vary car to car, depending on where its made and tax regime.

You need to look at actual dealer prices. 

The Nissan Altima is a popular "nice" family saloon. Pretty powerful, decent spec, a good CVT transmission. Equivalent to a Mazda 6 or Ford Mondeo. I have driven many.   Americans are more inclined to buy from a dealer for  what would be an equivalent pre-reg here perhaps. 

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/new/nl-New-Nissan-Altima-Los-Angeles-d237_L2163#listing=265577756

$21,678 before discounts. You would be lucky to get a Dacia Duster with a radio in it and windows with handles for that much here.

motorguy

Arklight said:

No, supply and demand determines price, not the number of humans with a pulse in the country of sale.

Your understanding of the American car market is, bizarrely ill informed. I have driven many different cars in the US. Some of the most common vehicles are Toyota Camrys and Nissan Altimas, followed by Kias. The Ford line is, absenting small hatches like the Focus and Fiesta,  much the same and the build quality is no better or worse than here.

Very simplistic view.

Local taxation makes up a big part of the price of any new car, and irrespective of "supply and demand", manufacturers need profit to survive so wont sell them at a loss.

Bemused that people taking out a PCP deal must be a "schmo" by the way - perhaps the deal suits their needs, they can afford it, and are happy with it?  Outrageous, i know...

Arklight

motorguy said:

Arklight said:

No, supply and demand determines price, not the number of humans with a pulse in the country of sale.

Your understanding of the American car market is, bizarrely ill informed. I have driven many different cars in the US. Some of the most common vehicles are Toyota Camrys and Nissan Altimas, followed by Kias. The Ford line is, absenting small hatches like the Focus and Fiesta,  much the same and the build quality is no better or worse than here.

Very simplistic view.

Local taxation makes up a big part of the price of any new car, and irrespective of "supply and demand", manufacturers need profit to survive so wont sell them at a loss.

Bemused that people taking out a PCP deal must be a "schmo" by the way - perhaps the deal suits their needs, they can afford it, and are happy with it?  Outrageous, i know...

I don't think you understand how supply and demand is calculated, or how it's fundamentally the only metric that sets prices.

ComicGeek

Arklight said:

motorguy said:

Arklight said:

No, supply and demand determines price, not the number of humans with a pulse in the country of sale.

Your understanding of the American car market is, bizarrely ill informed. I have driven many different cars in the US. Some of the most common vehicles are Toyota Camrys and Nissan Altimas, followed by Kias. The Ford line is, absenting small hatches like the Focus and Fiesta,  much the same and the build quality is no better or worse than here.

Very simplistic view.

Local taxation makes up a big part of the price of any new car, and irrespective of "supply and demand", manufacturers need profit to survive so wont sell them at a loss.

Bemused that people taking out a PCP deal must be a "schmo" by the way - perhaps the deal suits their needs, they can afford it, and are happy with it?  Outrageous, i know...

I don't think you understand how supply and demand is calculated, or how it's fundamentally the only metric that sets prices.

Apart from the cost of raw materials, labour costs, energy costs in manufacturing, company overheads etc etc.

But obviously none of those contribute to set prices....